Sounds like you have some more serious problems with communication than differences in belief. I would suggest some counselling might help with this. As far as the differences in belief goes, it sounds like he is more of a lapsed christian than an agnostic and it is likely he will return to it as he gets older or has children. Are you serious about this relationship? If you are then you had better give this serious thought.

Does he know that he really doesn't know? If he believes without realizing that he doesn't know, then he isn't actually an agnostic; rather, he's a theist with doubts, which isn't the same thing. If he realizes that he doesn't know - and can't know - yet still believes it, then I guess he's an agnostic, but it is an odd philosophical position.

Look, if you love someone it doesn't matter what they believe (or not.) I was brought up in a relatively nonjewish family. Until I turned 13 and tossed religion in the trash. My wife was from Europe and a semi-practicing jew. When we had children we left it up to them to decide. One became a non-believer and the other a lesbian jew. The non-believer became somewhat religious when he married (a christian). More so when they had a child. But back to my wife and me...I assisted her through medical school and we stayed together for about 20 years, then we decided to divorce. Religion did NOT play any part in our divorcing, just we couldn't (didn't want to) live together. Perhaps she is a psychiatrist thought I was crazy, I'll never know. We don't speak to each other any longer. But the time we were together was wonderful. That's my story and I'm sticking to it! Your case might or might not be different, but I'd say living with an agnostic is a heck of a lot better than living with a religious person.

I consider myself an agnostic atheist. Your description of him sounds like a doubting theist of some sort. I don't actually agree with the earlier comment that he will probably return to Christianity. What is that assumption based on? I started out quite Evangelical and eventually threw it out. My main advice to you, for what its worth, is to check your own thoughts about what these conversations are all about. If you are seeking eventually to pull into perfect theological agreement as a couple, you are setting yourself up for disappointment. And that isn't necessary. Most couples who care enough to have honest personal opinions will maintain some individual differences. So long as he is no fundamentalist trying to beat you over the head with his religious views, there is room for some dialogue. Try thinking of "God" when he says it as his word for the organizing forces that run the universe. Suggest to him that if there is a god, it must not care that much about making sure we know it with certainty, because it would have convinced us easily, that is, if this god is all-powerful. And if it is all-knowing, it would also understand why we doubt. If is is love, it would absolutely never make billions of humans, make us as limited in understanding as we are, and then torture us for eternity for being as we were made. It is proof the Christian conception of God is impossible. The best any of us can do with our lives is try to live them well, connect with others in some healthy, constructive way, and learn some wisdom. Maybe your boyfriend will come around to realizing that his god is actually physics. ????

Human life is finite and knowledge is probably infinite. We all have premises we accept as fact and premises that we consider to be fallacies that we do not do the mental work on. It might not be important to him to tear down all his theistic beliefs, even if they don't have the foundation of faith. It's kind of how I grew up learning that Pluto was a planet and I accept that it's not anymore, but I don't care enough to understand why. If I accidentally refer to Pluto as a planet and you correct me, I'll just shrug you off, not because I disagree, but because it's not important to me. I think some converts fall into that way of seeing things.

Based on how you're responding to other posts, it sounds like this is not central to the relationship, but you are struggling with your own identity as an atheist. I don't mean to downplay whatever is happening with you and your boyfriend, but you may want to consider how firm you are in your belief and your identity and make sure he respects that. Being an atheist trapped in a sea of theists can make you a little defensive, so I'd advise you to see if the issue is hitting other buttons. If he respects and validates your identity and you do the same for him, you don't have to agree.

It sounds as though he's either a lapsed Christian, or an agnostic held up by a feeling that he -should- believe in the god he grew up with. I would be curious to know what he thinks about the existence of other gods. I would also be curious to know how one of your conversations goes if you bring into it an agnostic who truly believes that the existence of god or gods is unknown and probably unknowable.

If he really is agnostic, I imagine he'll give the existence of other gods serious thought, and eventually shed his lingering theism. If he's really a Christian, I imagine he'll reject the possible existence of other gods, which might actually strengthen his Christianity.

I'd say don't make it a problem unless there really really is one. You say he is agnostic not theistic. Well that's OK then! If all he's saying is:

"only IF there is a god would this be the case"

Yeah IF. - It's not as if he's saying there unquestionably IS. But you go on to say:

"but it's obvious he believes it or really wants to."

Actually you might be wrong there. As an atheist don't you think you need proof rather than assuming things? Well you ARE assuming this because you don't have proof. Christians say things like "But it's obvious..." & that's exactly what you've assumed here too except with a different issue.

I'd say let him be. If he wants to believe in a God you cannot demand that he doesn't because you cannot choose what you want can you? Demanding he agrees with you isn't any different from a Christian demanding you should want to believe what they believe, so it's pretty hypocritical from that perspective. Count yourself lucky that he's agnostic rather than an out & out theist!

as in everything with a long term relationship compromise is key: by both parties

I try and take a position of acceptance of other's beliefs - I do not try and change their points of view and let them know that they won't likely change mine. You should not have to explain or support your views on an ongoing basis. There is a point where the relationship may break down as he needs to have the same respect for your points of view. You both need to accept that neither of you, nor anyone else, will ever see or interpret the worth through each of your sets of eyes - its not about right or wrong, because neither of you is right in each the other's POV, It is about accepting the truth of what each other believes. If either of you press and try to change the other, someone will be "wrong" and it will lead to ether a break up, or one of you falsely accepting the other's beliefs or bottling up the acceptance and hiding your real thoughts, feelings, and beliefs. That is not healthy.

Neither of you have any proof for either of your convictions... It is just how each of you view what you conceive to be most possible in your mind. Maybe just agree to disagree. Even with the theory of the big bang ....what was before It? Maybe it is just something our human brains can not imagine. Maybe there is some entity controlling things. Maybe there is a big nothing. Maybe there is just some loop process with no beginning and no end.

As for the bible he should read it before he defends or condemns it in my opinion. I do believe there are a few good points in the Bible. But as a whole it is NOT worth worshipping and living my life by.

If he was truly agnostic I think he would just not care one way or the other concerning a god idea. he is still clinging to that fear of death and leaving it open to possibility. While you could just concentrate on what is positive between you and the values you share, it is difficult to hear someone you care about talk nonsense. I use logic, but approach many of these things with humor. I don't think there is an easy answer to this within a relationship. I have lost my tolerance for for magical thinking.

The bible is a terrible guide 2 anything. As far as our origin n shit...I certainly think beings can evolve to higher forms...its just a matter of time. Why fret over it...if humanity has a purpose, its 2 insure and promote the biodiversity of evolution. Everything else right now is a serious waste of life anyway.

Base on what you have discussed, He does not show an Agnostic's way of thinking. The only advice I can suggest is, understand him. Talk to him directly that, he is not suppose to think like that if he is agnostic. Tell him straight. Besides, Agnosticism is a branch and a doctrine of Philosophy. I do not want to to sound edgy but If he thinks without logic, criticism and without questioning, maybe he does not know the nature of Agnosticism, not to offend but he maybe just a self proclaimed "Agnostic".

If faith is the opposite of reason and people are bound to possess some combination or percentage of the two, then focus on that similarity. It seems to me the trick is not to get hung up on things that the percentage of difference is minimal. I try to think of views on this topic as personal, when they leave the personal realm they don't function very well. On that note the things we tell ourselves have been shaped by the confluence of our openness to the experiences when they occur, he just hasn't had the effective motivation to change a conviction. Horses can be lead to water, blah blah blah. My suggestion would be to consider your own narrative and whether it's suiting you or the relationship, as that you can assuredly change if you so desire. You can ask and hope for it, but expecting others to change is generally a death sentence for relationships.

if he's not religious ask him why he cares if there's a creator? if there is something that would be capable of comprehending the entirety of the universe, it would have no regard for us, let alone provide us with an 'afterlife' or teachings.

and if the bible is such a good guide to life why did god waste the first 5 of 10 commandments screaming me, me!, me!, me!, me!, and not banning slavery.

in the end, he's a Christian saying he's agnostic to be with you, you should take it as a compliment, you make a man deny his faith in spite of himself.

Movement from being an agnostic toward atheism is largely a matter of courage and maturity. Over time most agnostics finally get the courage to admit that they are atheists. Don't argue, but ask questions which allow the person to clarify their own thoughts. Give him time and space. He will get there.

Be aware that he is a cult survivor and will probably always have a pull toward the cult's belief system, and he will be struggling to live an authentic life. It's good he has a loving partner who can gently listen to his feelings and cheer him on as he recovers. If he decides to go back to the brainwashers, get couples counseling quickly before they convince him he doesn't need it! If he continues his healthy recovery, the two of you can play some fun games once in a while, like "who got guilted the most?" as you swap horror stories of mind and life control. Or marvel together at how much fun you are having now that you are free of dogma restraints, right?

Hi Talia! I just read your post and I think there is an issue with what your boyfriend identifies as his belief concerning a god. If he believes in a god then he is a theist (if I mis read your post and am confused sorry). I copied and pasted a few things directly from Huxley himself (the person who coined the term Agnostic).

This is Webster definition of Agnostic:

"a person who believes that nothing is known or can be known of the existence or nature of God or of anything beyond material phenomena; a person who claims neither faith nor disbelief in God."
synonyms: skeptic, doubter, doubting Thomas, cynic;

Huxley describes how he came to originate the term "agnostic" as follows:

"When I reached intellectual maturity, and began to ask myself whether I was an atheist, a theist, or a pantheist; a materialist or an idealist; a Christian or a freethinker, I found that the more I learned and reflected, the less ready was the answer; until at last I came to the conclusion that I had neither art nor part with any of these denominations, except the last. The one thing in which most of these good people were agreed was the one thing in which I differed from them. They were quite sure that they had attained a certain "gnosis"--had more or less successfully solved the problem of existence; while I was quite sure I had not, and had a pretty strong conviction that the problem was insoluble. And, with Hume and Kant on my side, I could not think myself presumptuous in holding fast by that opinion"...

"Agnosticism, in fact, is not a creed, but a method, the essence of which lies in the rigorous application of a single principle. That principle is of great antiquity; it is as old as Socrates; as old as the writer who said, 'Try all things, hold fast by that which is good'; it is the foundation of the Reformation, which simply illustrated the axiom that every man should be able to give a reason for the faith that is in him, it is the great principle of Descartes; it is the fundamental axiom of modern science. Positively the principle may be expressed: In matters of the intellect, follow your reason as far as it will take you, without regard to any other consideration. And negatively: In matters of the intellect, do not pretend that conclusions are certain which are not demonstrated or demonstrable. That I take to be the agnostic faith, which if a man keep whole and undefiled, he shall not be ashamed to look the universe in the face, whatever the future may have in store for him."

Thank you for putting up with this long winded reply. I read the other replies on this thread and I wanted to give you a little bit more concrete evidence on what agnostic is and how it came about if you already did not know. I

Sounds to me like he is a Christian but wants to pitch being an agnostic so he can "hang out" with you. But hey, in addition to being an atheist, I am also a skeptic, and half the time, a complete a-hole.

It sounds like he isn't agnostic so much as just a flat out christian.. If he makes his arguments without reason or logic.. then there is no way to have those discussions. You can try to influence him with examples of the horrid actions/inactions of his god, but that may easily become hostile. You're best bet is to avoid the topic.. anything else will just continue to be salt in the wound. (Divorced a theist)

I think you have to make a choice, if you love him and wish to continue the relationship, you will have to basicly just avoid the subject. The alternative will be continued pointless arguements that will never go anywhere because he will not be open to reason given his stated position. I hope you can resolve this within yourself because the only person who can affect this is you, as it appears that his mind is closed.

From what I can see, what you are frustrated about is not the question of existence of god/ creator, but his unscientific thinking method. If you can accept that aspect of him, there might be a future; if not, don't waste your time on trying to change him, only if a person wanted to change and opened to reasoned discussion can he change.

If he's important to you and you want him in your life in the near and far future, agree to disagree but keep an open mind that he just may be swayed somewhere down the road due to something you said that sparked his fancy.

"only IF there is a god would this be the case" ???? He either believes it is or he doesn't believe it is. He sounds to me like a closet theist. Try asking him, if there is no evidence for a God why would you make an assumption that there is one. If he answers he doesn't and there is no justification for this belief then he's agnostic. If he answers in any other way you've got yourself a closet theist who is afraid of losing you if he comes out. Just a hunch.

There will always be disagreements with people we get close to. It would be boring if we were all the same. Some find it easier to end a question they can not answer with god which ends their curiosity. An atheist wants to know more and as long as there is a question an investigation continues. He should be able to believe anything he wants, if that makes him comfortable, as should you. Unless he challenges you about it, let it be. If he does he has to give you equal time. Ask him what books he has read that he would like you to read on this subject. Read it in return that he read one of your books and discuss your findings. The Illusion of God might be a good start for him.