I like that one.

Well, that can happen, marrying a person that in hindsight always has been wrong. Other people marry the right person at the wrong time or the right person at the time that he was still right, but that he turned wrong.

I can't bring myself to click "like". If there were a sad face I would have clicked on that. Man, I am sorry to hear that.

Thank you Kingo, it is always nice to hear your message.

@madmac You got it man. I am always here brutha.

Well your brother may have not made a decision that I would never make unless I get an incurable lethal disease, but I guess I felt like that probably, not seeing a way out. Sad for the ones who loved him.

Early religious brainwashing is responsible for your use and acceptance of none- sensible terms such as SACRED SACROMENT, SINNING, CONFESSION. Look into the dreadful history of the Roman Catholic church and then say you have free will. You have a dreadful virus in your reasoning. Your free will has been gazumped !

@madmac I was never brainwashed.. I was in a private catholic school that happened to provide me a better education than any public school in america... that is the way it was by design of my parents and I am very grateful I attended those years during my formation to that school. I was never brainwashed. If i use the word "host" then I have to explain... but a spade is called a spade so like I said before... I am not at war with god or religion. Neither I go around blaming xtians for everything wrong in the world.

@GipsyOfNewSpain maybe you should blame christians and other religions for everything wrong in the world or they neglected to teach you that kind of history in catholic school?

@astrnelis I blame money because deep down Always Been About Money. Atheist greedy for money not exception.

Sure, you are brainwashed. I like it that you show here such a clear example of brainwashing and how it works in a sub-conscience way. Sure, there are a lot of reasons for blaming religion. If you don't see the real face of religion, why are you here active on the site of agnostic.com then? Is denying indoctrination the first step of spreading your religion? Apparently, you must be still religious, defending it. The core quality of religious people is that they believe what their religion says, never doubt and never feel indoctrinated. Although you seem to hide that you are religious, you still defend religion, Denying the apparent truth. You even try to blame atheists for being greedy, but if you should have informed yourself well, you should be aware of the fact that the greed and wealth is very much concentrated in the Christian part of the Western World. So, believing in Christ is beneficial for many.

@Gert if you take away... MONEY... what will religions fight about? But you are brainwashed capitalist that sure at one time your prayer included fortune and money coming to you in exchange for your loyalty. Now you are rabid against religion because god never gave you the riches of heaven on earth... he, he, ha, he. funny, pretty funny I may add.

@GipsyOfNewSpain
This is the second time this week that I'm insulted on this site. The first time by someone that needed some understanding and explanation, ending in a positive conversation. This time by a short-minded guy that thinks he knows the truth but refuses to think for himself. A guy that thinks that it is funny to insult people on this site. Let me tell you, NO YOU ARE NOT FUNNY AT ALL!!! You are annoying and insulting, but far from funny! You show to us that your opportunistic way of thinking is full of biases. You think that you know the truth like a god, and refuse to think things over, refusing to review your own biases. I guess because you think that is not necessary. Well, maybe you should start thinking in the first place, you might be surprised of what you find.

You think that everybody but yourself is a capitalist hunting for money. That because of your biased opinion you think you can insult everyone on this site (and probably everywhere), because they are capitalists anyway. And you claim that you are not indoctrinated??
It is clear to me that your thinking is quite limited, like that is the case with a lot of religious people.

If you are not prepared to listen, you should not be allowed on this site at all, because this site is based on respect for each other's opinion. Building- and exchanging argumentations. I'm okay that you have an opinion, but the way you present it, makes conversation impossible. You yell some words of which you think they are funny, but that are not even considered to be an opinion, because you don't give any argument. You should be a way more modest and respectful on this site.

@Gert Playing the victim card twice this week? Get laid cartoon face, this is a grown up playground!!!!

@GipsyOfNewSpain Wow, that's an easy reply. Bravo! A reply with content. Your arguments almost convinced me! Probably you have not even read my reply. Are you afraid that you really have to start thinking? Your replies are too biassed to be insulting for me. You might wish! Apparently you don't know how to handle serious arguments, let alone read them. But what do I expect. Someone biassed doesn't need arguments, because he knows. Just like a lot of Christians that I know.

@Gert get laid gertrudes... get laid.

@GipsyOfNewSpain You have no idea money-man, you have no idea how often I have seen your kind of reaction around me. Big ego, no thinking.

@Gert No... I have no idea... but you do... and the fact that "nobody" has no idea how people react around you and yet you still not realize it is you what is wrong... speaks volumes about your character.

@GipsyOfNewSpain You have no idea, money man, you have no idea!

Clearly this is typical of brainwashed religious reasoning. Stand your ground, What magical ingredient does marriage provide ? absolutely none. Enjoy your commitment to each other, My very best wishes to you both.

@madmac I don't appreciate the conceited formulation of your comment and I don't agree with you either. You are entitled to your opinion but you should present it in a way that your opinion is the truth, and that every other opinion is ridiculous. You are not some god. Opinions always evolve through history. Don't think your opinion is absolute and unchangeable.

It is so easy to stick your own preconception on a situation as I described, and it is not fair at all, as you have no idea. This is not to be simplified as being a clear situation that justifies a judgement like you give. It's not how you or I think of it today, it is also understanding that others think different and that in other times people lived in another culture, based on religion or not. Every culture is based on indoctrination (brainwashed reasoning, as you call it), teaching a child the way of living and values that are needed to stay alive and thrive.

Yes, my father was brought up with principles that were normal for the second half of the first half of the 20th century. You can't blame people to build a life based on religious and cultural principles. When parents raise their children they also teach them their values. I suppose your parents did the same with you. Normally a child starts to question these values in their puberty. If they have sufficient information they accept, adjust or reject those principles one after another. That's how culture evolves. If a child lives in a closed community or ditto family they don't have alternatives to weigh, so they accept and keep the principles. My father was not highly educated and a man that had learned to work with his hands. The fact that he lived and taught us things that were based on his principles, he never limited us in thinking different.
But I also lived based on this cultural background and family. Even while I had rejected lots of their principles, that did not mean that I could not respect theirs. I very much respect that my father did what he thought was right based on his conviction, I respect him for that, even though it was kind of shocking to hear what he did. He drew his conclusions just for himself and never judged us or loved us less.

I respect your ideas and feelings about if people should marry or not. Marriage has shown useful through the ages, so I don't agree with you. And for your information, marriage does have some magical ingredient. Promising or making vows towards each other in front of the public of the ones that are close to you, contains the magic of emotion. It is expression of love. At least that has it been for me. Also deciding to go to live together had, though more private, the same magic. The first cry of your baby, just born, is a magical moment too. But, it probably would be better for the world that no more babies would see the light.

@Gert Wow !! a great reply, I can't figure out how a prick like me could be worthy of such a well thought out response.

@madmac
Sorry, I was a lawyer once, but don't underestimate yourself, I have only my own thought to share, just like you. I only use a lot of (some say too many) words to point out my opinion.

Fucked up. At least you get it now, and are better for it moving forward.

Was that the only reason to marry him? Normally there is a whole social surrounding that also puts pressure. Parents that love the partner and the in-laws, the village, the church community, being a good party. All kind of reasons for all kinds of people.
This personal action towards you to influence your decision, is quite evil. (Devilish )

Although I don't know what MVSS-O is, I get the point. It's probably your present partner. But you show very clear how deep indoctrination of religion and culture goes. Suppressing free thinking, because that is dangerous. It's the same through the ages.

lol

How did she guilt trip you?

@KingofHarts Acting like it’s the only way to prove I would never leave her, she would act desperately as well, would like not to go into to much more detail.

I'm just a silly Dutchman with silly associations, but is "getting laid" not a form of acceptance that men are the ones that should have the initiative and that women have to be sexual submissive when they both want sex?

"holy shit"...It is good your family and her friend steered her from that whack job. Do you know what ever happened to the guy? Did he finally "sell the dream" to some gullible sheep?

He ended up bringing himself a wife from Eastern Europe where he is from originally. The funny thing is that he would of had a much better chance at dating my sister or the other chick had he not mentioned the “dream.” He was an all right looking guy who owned his own business and seemed to have his ducks in a row. My guess is that he had some inferiority complex which he sought to compensate with bs dreams.

True. But "god's will" brings a sense of duty and obligation. Anyone can reject "baby we are meant for each other". But if the big man upstairs wants it--who's gonna say no? (or not sell everything they own, blow themselves up in downtown Tel Aviv etc.)