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My take on religion: Ethics and religion are not the same. God and religion is not the same. Spirituality and religion are not the same. Religion demands that you be in awe of its deity, its sacred writings, and its priests. The implication is loud and clear. Follow! Don't think! So anyone can put on priests robes, be it a priest or a political leader, or anyone with an agenda to use the public, and command you to do their bidding. Religion creates good followers. Once you are a good follower you can follow almost anything...like Hitler.

think-beyond 7 Jan 26
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12 comments

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1

Although a Lutheran this Pastor stood alone:
"Friedrich Gustav Emil Martin Niemöller (German: [?ni?mœl?]; 14 January 1892 – 6 March 1984) was a German anti-Nazi theologian and Lutheran pastor.[1][2] He is best known for a widely-paraphrased statement which he made in different versions, one of which is "First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out-because I was not a Socialist. ... Then they came for me-and there was no one left to speak for me.""
[en.m.wikipedia.org]

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Now if only those religiously ethical folks would stop killing in the name of their god. I'm not even go into the child abuse and women issues.

What about the men issues of sending them off to fight religious (sect?) wars?

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The thing about religion that is most important is that it gets the young child when that child is developing guide lines for his life. The earlier it happens, the more subliminal it is. So at this very vulnerable time of life, the child is taught to follow and not use his thinking abilities. That is not good for society - let alone that child. Every person needs to establish their identity. That is a lifetime process that belongs to each person. Those who do not think are fodder to follow right or wrong things according to the tide.

And how I hate those that cut important irreplaceable parts off their children in the name of religion or now the pretense of misguided hygiene! Barbarians.

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First of all, I don't get your opening statement that religion is not equal to ethics, god, spirituality. You probably are right, but religion claims all three anyway. All religions that I know worship a god, think that the ethics of that religion is leading and that believing creates an experience of spirituality. (A car has wheels, just like his predecessor the bike and without wheels you can't get forward, other than walking.)
I'm not sure if the fact that a religion uses one or more gods, spirituality and ethics also implicates following. Neither does it implicate that you should be in awe. They hope you are. They just want you to worship. Not completely the same. But you are quite right, the goal is follow, don't think. But the human race is predestined to following. In general humans love to follow because it is so easy. Humans do not really like to think. If following gives them protection, a community, and the basics that they need for living, they are quite easy. The Roman emperors knew it all too well. Feed them and keep them busy and they will never revolt. It's not just religion that creates followers. Sports do, politics do, just the same as religion. Even in schools in schools a lot of bullies appear to gain some leadership and followers. Brainless, but still ……….
And it has always been a quite small group of intellectuals (thinkers) that rowed upstream. It's of all time. I love rowing upstream (not physical though 🙂).

Gert Level 7 Jan 27, 2018

The difference is that religion gets you when you are very young and just beginning to develop your way of relating to life. So from that early start where patterns are created in you to set the bar for your life, you are taught to follow. What would it be like if at these very early years we were encouraged to think - to reason? A child naturally questions things.

@think-beyond You are quite right, indoctrination is the most effective at ages that people have not learned to think (yet). Children, mentally disabled people. Conservatism is actually also based on the same principles. Believe as a child, don't learn to think.
To be honest, it's not only religion, but also the leaders, the nobles through the ages that tried and try to keep people dumb. A little less than half of the Americans fit this description. I hope that a lot of children, helped by education at school, will learn to think anyway and take distance from their indoctrination. It's quite a fight though as a lot of public schools, that are not allowed to practice religion, still do. Still I think there is hope.

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It sounds like slippery slope.

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Yikes, I think that this is a type of follower, maybe, but I have religious friends who don't goose step to their beliefs. I have known priests of various groups, from catholic to satanic, and they weren't particularly fascist in their expression of their beliefs. Though there was this Chaplin in the marines....I am pretty sure he worked for Himmler as a toddler...almost sure of it.

Thanks for your comment. Of course there are thinking Protestants, Jews, Catholics. I know that. But generally speaking, there are too many who just follow and following without thinking can lead to anything. It has. Case in point: Trump.

@think-beyond I don't think the trumpling is religious at all...I think he uses it as a tool for power...so...yeah...you got it...maybe one of the best examples is the trumpling...

2

Yeah, most religions make no sense - thats why they rely on faith.

I see religion growing from early mans attempt to make sense of the world around him.

gater Level 7 Jan 26, 2018

So maybe religion should be history.

@think-beyond Religions certainly have deep roots in our history, people need something to believe, as we learn to accept science, our beliefs change.

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...right up until "Hitler"...you were right.

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When you are brought up to follow and not to think, you do not learn how to think. Colleges teach thinking skills. Thinking requires training and takes time to perfect - never reaching perfecting.

The greater part of thinking is not intelligence, it is the courage to be different.

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Once you are a good follower, you are a good conformer. So when your group decides that another group is inferior and undeserving, for you that is just the way it is.

2

"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."
-Voltaire

3

Yup. Nailed it.
I've said for years that Christianity trains people from childhood to check their brains at the church door and mindlessly obey white male authority. The GOP had the perfect zombies to manipulate when the Tea Party and Moral Majority got involved in politics. Just give religious leaders a piece of the power and they can lead their sheep to the polls.

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