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To meat or not to meat

So I am not a vegetarian and I would never even consider going vegan even if my wife depended on it. (see what I did there?)
But increasingly when I am grocery shopping and I see the meat section I get a little grossed out. I see that raw muscle and all I can think is that came from a living sentient creature that was mercilessly killed, not for food but for consumption.
We treat other animals like raw materials to be harvested.
I won't go vegetarian, if someone offers me a hamburger or even a steak or chicken I'm going to eat it because I still love the taste of meat, because once it's cooked it's easy to not think about where it came from.
But I don't buy much meat, maybe a pound of ham for sandwiches but nothing raw. And I will tell people every chance I get that I am a vegetarian by American standards because I eat so little meat.
And I think that is the solution to factory farms and the mass slaughter of hundreds of millions of animals every year. Just cut back, way back.
I look forward to the day that most if not all meat is grown from cells rather than on farms. But if I never ate meat again I really don't think I would miss it, that is if I don't have to endure the smell of my neighbors grilling it every week.

What about you, where to you stand on the issue of meat?

ThomasLevi 6 Jan 29
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20 comments

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I'm carnivorous😉

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I live with a vegetarian GS, so not much meat makes it into the pot. But I am cooking chili today to use up ground turkey. I grew up in a camp for displaced people and have known real hunger. I do not begrudge anyone their hamburger. You have the right idea, Thomas Levi. It's about quantity and variety now.

1

I am not a vegetarian. I have serious doubts that I ever would be. I just don't see the difference between eating a plant and eating an animal.

But at the same time, I respect everyone's choice in this matter. It is a highly personal choice and I'll not try to influence it.

d_day Level 7 Feb 9, 2018
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I am a pescetarian, plus eggs, very little dairy (still working on that half and half for my coffee). This is where I am currently, after many years of trying different "food modes" if you will - midwesterner-meat-and-potatoes to vegan to vegetarian to now. I think we change as we get older and have to listen to our own physiology. There is no one size fits all food mode. If you feel better eating meat, then eat meat (ethically, if that is a thing). If not, don't. Listen to your body. We are all unique.

2

i couldn't even thread a hook through a worm. so my vegetarian life began 25 years ago when i realised that i wouldn't ever have meat on the table, if it wasn't for others to kill the animal for me. anyway, i wasn't ever too keen eating dead animals - there is a family history of raw-foodies & vegetarianism on my mother's side, so we didn't eat meat on a daily basis at home. i noticed the benefits to my body of being vegetarian quite soon, which was accompanied by a repulsion to contribute to the monstrous breeding & killing of sentient beings. our planet would thank us for raising less animals on her too.

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I havnt eaten meat for 40 years ( damn, I'm hungry 🙂 )
I think sooner or later the entire world is going to have to eat much much less meat. Its a very inefficient and environmentally damaging way to produce food. As countries like China, India etc start to develop the demand for meat is going through the roof. Its just not sustainable.
The ethics of eating meat are complicated and arguably if you kill it and eat it, I guess that's for your conscience to decide. But modern meat production of beef, chicken, pork etc is like concentration camps. Those animals are filled with steroids, anti biotics and who knows what? And then meat eaters consume it. Yuck!

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We are evolutionary creatures. Our teeth are designed to rip, tear and grind meaning tear and rip meat, and grind grains. We are evolved to be omnivores.

I agree. I don't think eating meat is un-natural but there are SO many of us now that the sheer logistics of providing meat for our ever growing population is becoming untenable.

@JimmyM I think market forces will force meat production to decline in favor of cheaper agricultural products (like soyburgers, ect). Gradually it will become something of a novelty to have a steak dinner, already has for a lot of people come to think of it.

@RobCampbell In the book "Stranger in a Strange Land" there is a scene early on where Ben has Jillian over for dinner. She asks "Real steak? Not syntho?"

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Interesting take, I raise meat goats and am in the process of switching from pure meat production over to show stock and breeding stock operation. My bosses wife raises beef cattle and she won't eat beef as a result. Cant stand the idea she may be eating one of her babies she raised and yet she keeps raising them. I tell you this because as producers we do care about our animals and most slaughter houses are humane in their processes though there will always be that one.... I would buy from a farmer advertising a half or quarter beef/pork/ lamb whatever you choose as these are usually slaughtered at a small shop where it is definitely done very humanely and most farmers do take wonderful care of their animals while they are alive. A well placed bullet is a quick death.

in my mind there is no humane way of killing a sentient being - unless it's a human, begging me to aid them in ending their suffering.

@walklightly In case you missed it we as humans are omnivores which means we eat meat and plants both. But unlike other meat eaters we at least try to humanely harvest our meat.. If you ever watch a predator take down prey you will appreciate that well place bullet over their terrifying methods of killing.

@misstuffy, i didn't miss a thing. i am what i am by my own choice only, in this case vegetarian. i consider it a skewed view to compare my intellectually & empathetically advanced mind to that of a non-human predator.

@walklightly at the end of the day we are all just animals, superior intellect or not

2

My daughter (20 yo) is vegan for those reasons. I would miss dairy and eggs, but I can do without meat for extended periods of time, and psychologically and ethically I prefer to. I have 4 cats and I often wonder why I do so much to keep them healthy and happy while eating meat from dead animals. I think I'd feel better about it if I knew the animals were not treated cruelly.

0

I am an omnivore. It causes me some consternation because of the industries that provide meat for consumption, but I engage in that hypocrisy. I do my best not to think about it.
I couldn't become a vegetarian, I don't like vegetables that much. Becoming vegan is out of the question.

1

I am a hypocrite, I couldn't kill an animal except to end its suffering and even then it would be hard, yet I eat meat. In nature, animals eat other animals and this is often my justification, teh problem is that in nature there are very few top predators compared to all other animals, but humans are a top predator and there are billions of us, and we have technology, so the balance is shot.

Could not agree more.
I've often said that if I had to kill the animals I would be forced to be vegetarian, fortunately I would not really have a problem with that.
But of course if I were forced to grow all my own food, killing the occasional animal would probably get a lot easier.

0

I have never met a meat I didn't like. Beef, pork, lamb, fish, shellfish, poultry, venison, racoon, rabbit . . .

I am always eager to try something new. For example, I have never had rattlesnake, frog legs, or any other kind of reptile or amphibian for that matter. I'm curious.

I've also never had any insects or other "bugs" (at least not on purpose!! lol) Some say that insects and related critters, such as mealworm, are the "meats" of the future. If that's true (or even if it isn't) then I'd like to try that too. Mealworm, cicada, tarantula . . .

I'm rather adventurous when it comes to food. I love my vegetables, but I have also found more vegetables that don't suit my palette than meats.

3

We should absolutely NOT be meating. veganism is not only morally superior, it is the least we can do.

Well, being an omnivore I will disagree with one word "only".
We certainly could get by without eating any animal products but I do not find anything morally superior about being vegetarian. I would much rather promote ethical raising of animals and true cost pricing of animal products which would do far more in reducing meat consumption than a battle to convince people to be vegetarian.
Properly price steak at $10-$15 a pound and then subsidize instead whole vegetable and fruits would be far more effective at getting people to stop eating so much and other animal products.

@ThomasLevi I'm confused - makin meat cheaper would cause less consumption?

@ThomasLevi there couldn't be anythng ethical about killing something you don't NEED to kill though. U say we would be fine without animal products so why take their life just for your taste buds?

1

This question keeps coming around and will probably keep doing so. A former partner and I learned about the problems of meat (especially beef) and started to cut out some meats from our diet. Eventually we went vegetarian and I never looked back. My late partner learned about her health problems with meat and went cold-tofurky (pun intended). The first thing we and most people note is an upswing in energy. There is another upside which I won't get into because few believe me (but I have proof).
To me it is a moral issue. Yes it takes many more resources is a major form of green house gases and pollution. Eating is a sensuous pleasure. It appeals to most if not all the senses and meat has been associated with extreme pleasure. To me the cost is guilt which I cannot ignore given what I know. We cannot say we are concerned about the planet and hunger of others if we use a food source that has such a high resource cost. I would tell omnivores to look around there is a ton of information out there that highlights to cost of eating meat. (Meet your Meat)


Add here's a fun one: [headlines.peta.org]

yes, i agree. so much pain & suffering in the animal before it gets killed. added to that all the antibiotics, hormones & whatchamacallit they get fed while "alive", plus the trauma imprint of the kill on their meat - why on earth would i want to put that into my system?

@walklightly Here's a fact that meat eaters laugh at. The Seattle zoo has a program of composting animal poo. The product is so popular that a raffle is done for it. We went on a tour and met 'Dr. Poo'. He gave us a tour of the processing arena. There was a huge pile of scat. He had a long probe connected to a thermometer. He inserted the probe and we saw hot hot the pile was. He asked if we noticed anything; we didn't. He said there was no odor and there wasn't. This process can only be gotten from the herbivores. The carnivore scat is inappropriate, slimy, smelly and won't decompose well. It is sent though the sewer lines to the treatment plant. See the reaction you get when you tell people that.

@JackPedigo Being a gardener I am very aware of that fact. And as someone who compost I am very aware that pet poop is something you never compost because most pets are dogs and cats who are carnivores. Eating meat adds all kinds of nasty stuff. But meat is delicious.

@ThomasLevi I have said it many times; eating is a sensuous experience. The guilt of meat and knowledge of its impact on the planet keeps me from enjoying this food source. Besides there are so many other foodstuffs even faux meat.

3

I've been a vegetarian for about 15 years, but I'm not a vegan (even though I think it's probably healthier to avoid cheese and eggs in general). I do go through periods when I'm much more strict and eat only whole, raw fruits, vegetables, nuts, etc., with few exceptions (e.g., a little hot sauce and dried spices on a salad). I find eating a "normal" diet makes me sluggish and I have more body aches and fatigue, but being more restrictive seems to make a huge difference. Perhaps some of it is that it's really difficult to overeat on raw fruits and vegetables, so getting an excess of calories (which I think tends to tax a typical body) isn't a concern, even when I'm eating nonstop throughout the day. Regardless, I don't think I could ever go back to eating meat. Even though the aroma of barbequed chicken is still enticing, it's not a strong craving. And the smell of bacon actually makes me a little queasy now.

@SamMcGlone About two years ago, when I did my first extended no-processed-foods stint (a few months) I ate no sugars except what was in my whole fruits and vegetables. And it was really difficult for the first few weeks, as I had serious sugar cravings, but then the cravings subsided and it wasn't so difficult. Now I rarely eat candy or confections. I'll occasionally have something sweet, but I no longer feel the urge to keep eating sweets. I'd much rather eat fruit now.

@SamMcGlone I agree. I used to love meat and preferred it cooked rare ("cut its horns off, wipe its arse and it's ready" was my ideal steak). However, only a few months after I stopped eating it I began to find the whole concept unappealing. Nowadays, 20 years later, the idea of eating even a tiny bit of meat makes me feel sick.

3

I'm as concerned about the environmental cost of meat production as I am the ethical considerations. It takes a lot more energy to produce a given amount of animal protein than plant protein. And I don't even want to talk about the damage we're doing to things like the ocean.
So far we're still in, but nearing the end of, the period where the earth will support our indulgences like meat eating. As the size of our population gets more and more out of control I don't know how much longer that period will last.

2

Raising animals could become a thing of the past; meat is now being grown in the lab. No cruelty meat: BBC News - Lab-grown meat: The future of food? [bbc.com]

1

There is also the issue with the meat industries' contribution to Global Warming - even if it's no where near (no where near at all) as high as the energy industries' contribution. This point is probably more personally pertinent than the wholesale slaughter for consumption - even if that, too, is an important consideration.

To clarify, I can still justifiably accept that there are humane methods for the killing of animals for food.

Thinking of them as truly sentient beings (e.g. they care for their young, some shows affection to their human carers, and their sentience are only limited by their physiology: voice boxes, no opposable thumbs, etc.) does make it difficult. What if they weren't limited by their physiology? Would they express feeling and understanding to the point that we feel and understand them?

as far as i am concerned there is no humane way of killing a sentient being - unless it is a human being, begging to be aided in ending their own life.

@walklightly I'm not there yet. I can see "it" (giving up meat) in the horizon, but I'm not there yet. I had to clarify my acceptance of killing animals with "for food". EDIT: If I couldn't justify it "for food", I'd be vegan by now.

0
4

Grilled burgers.... yummm. Broiled steak.... yummm. Fried pork chops.....yummm.

My former boss and I used to make comments after the film "fried green tomatoes" came out. We would refer to the person being grilled as "the other white meat".

Yes, meat is good but I can think of thousand things that also make me say yum that never had a pulse or could look you in the eye. Millions look at dogs and say YUMMMMMM, or our fellow primates YUMMMMMM and for some insects YUMMMMMM.
I'm sure human meat would be just as tasty if you didn't know what it was.

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