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Who's Worse: Melania or Hillary?

This article looks at deeper, internatonal issues.[counterpunch.org] "Progressives, Socialists, and Black Lives Matter"

Krish55 8 Oct 13
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Prof. Howard Zinn Speaks:

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I would rather my daughter be more like Hillary. Melania is a terrible example for young girls.

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The point of the article is that Melania is a symbol of unabashed colonialism, while Hillary is a symbol of more discrete but similarly murderous imperialism. The article is really neither about Melania or Hillary. Don't get hung up on the clickbait title/question. These two are merely symbols of different aspects of Western imperialism.

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Plainly, supporting DT and the Republican agenda speaks very badly for Melania. DT's only deviation from pure evil is the more measured evil he enacts as a puppet of the Deep State. That would be the same Deep State that gave Hillary and Obama their marching orders. So Melania is worse for not having a positive opinion, nor a positive influence. Not to mention being loyal to a traitor. She is certainly a horrible example for women.

At least Hillary is trying to support progressives in the next election, though it's not at all clear her support helps her candidates. Hillary should crawl back under her rock, but she never understood her limitations. The latter being one of the severe negatives that disqualified her as a candidate.

@Krish55 The Counterpunch is undisguised propaganda filled with lies and half-truths. But it's hard to influence with invective badly outweighing actual facts. While Hillary gets blamed for foreign policy failures in Iraq, Libya and Syria, these countries were wretched dictatorships to begin with. You and the article conveniently forget this. Policies in the Middle East and Africa are complicated; there simply aren't that many good guys where the cultures are dominated by insane religions, power-mad politicians and money-mad corporations. Hillary's responsibility is way, way down on the list behind many others, far more deserving of blame. Hillary was mainly seeking to build her credentials before another presidential run. I don't think she accomplished much except coordinating the military buildup needed to counter Al-Qaida. The bigger issue becomes: Why try to tar Hillary at this point? What is the motive? Is it like so many Republicans, you're obsessed and just can't let go of your hate?

Your comment displays cultural bias and the blaming of the victims. It ignores continual CIA destabilization. It ignores the US fostering of Islamic fanaticism to destroy reformist, democratic governments. It ignores that some leaders did become dictatorial to prevent their countries from being torn apart by Western imperialism. You claim to have found lies but didn't point out any.

The dislike is for imperialism and those who readily serve its purposes - and that includes Obama and most old-guard Democrats.

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The always elegant Melania. I couldn't be prouder to be an American.

Yuppers....

Hey! Remember when Mrs. Obama had bare arms?? That was awful.

@Secretguy Fox was calling for Obama’s impeachment over that...or something like it! She was prettier before all the plastics.

@Secretguy When the Trumps were discussing a possible run for the presidency Donald will surely have recognized that any dirt that could be found about either of them should be expected to come out into the public domain. So imagine the two of the revealing to each other what they so far had hidden from each other....

It is true that Europe is much more relaxed about nude photo's than the Americans - but it does not make good material for being a mom or a first lady. But repeated infidelity makes a man much less worthy to be a father and a leader of a country.....

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I wouldn’t give any validity to a source known a a radical left conspiracy fear mongering hate rag with connections to Wikileaks.

The facts used to support this opinion piece have been well documented in the mainstream press. What specifically do you deny?

@Krish55 I find it funny and rather sexist... not to mention a false equivalency You obviously have a horse in the race and are biased in your argument. I’m Canadian, I don’t get your point at all. Why Hillary vs. Melania. Melania was a mail order bride and liar, propagated a horrendous immigration policy that lead to children locked in cages. Resulting in several deaths. There are still 1500 children living in a freaking tent. During Hillary’s tenure as First Lady, her main goal was health care... which yet again the republicans wanted no part of. Hillary as Secretary of State cannot be compared to Melania. Secretary of State represents the president and does not act on thier own unilaterally. Your anger should be directed at Obama, not Hillary.

@Green_eyes My horse in the race are the deaths of people in the 3rd world, for which both democrats and republicans have been responsible.

@Krish55 the term “third world” is antiquated and politically incorrect. As you should be aware, the problems in some of these “developing nations” were there long before America existed.

@Green_eyes Yep, European colonialism started earlier:

@Green_eyes I agree that the comparison lends itself to a charge of sexism. As I explain above, however, Melania and Hillary are merely symbols of different types of imperialism.

@Green_eyes What precisely don't you like about Wikileaks?

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This thread is further proof that all that is wrong with this country starts and ends with conservatives.

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I speaks volumes about conservatives that Hillary is savaged for keeping her marriage together. (But apparently, Melanoma gets a pass for staying with the serial assaulter).

It looks like the US population is facing the fact that many american men cheat on their wives. JFK, Bill Clinton, Trump, Anne Wimsey's husband (see below) to name a few that are being discussed on this thread and many more have been exposed in public. And the presidents were by their own statement all devoted Christians.

I sure understand that you want to remain secret when having the audacity to use that kind of word about the US presidents wife. I would not be surprised if you get an unexpected visitor if they knew who you are.

I'd say the conservatives have clearly demonstrated that they care more about the short term practicals then about living according to principals. For instance Mr. Ryan stating he can no longer support candidate Trump after the damaging sex tape but folding his position when Trump kept on winning in the election so he could keep his job.This is very dangerous to the mental and moral health of any society.

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From the comments below, I can see that many liberals really don't care about how their liberal heroes, who are definitely better than the Republicans, nevertheless create misery for brown, black and Asian people in the world. Hillary supported the coup in Honduras that led to the loss of human rights and the migrant crisis from that country. I mention her actions in the Middle East below

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How can I go with this? I'm not sure that Hillary or Melania have caused any deaths. If either of them had of done so it might be time to "lock her up." Some of you believe this in real time according to the ravings of that egomaniac Agolf Twitler. He has no power to lock anyone up - yet.

As Secretary of State , Hillary promoted war in Libya and Syria which resulted in chaos, deaths, and the refugee crisis. It also greatly set back the rights of women in those countries.

You can go with it by reading the article and following International issues!

@Krish55 I'm not sure this is a serious question. That is why I stick to my original answer. 🙂

@DenoPenno You're right. The point is to establish that Hillary was a warmonger.

Sure he does. Puts them in Guantanamo......

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The point of the article, and my point too, is that they're just two different sides of the same exploitative warmongering system…

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Before you comment, please read the article. It's tells how Hillary created misery in Libya and Syria, for example.

Regardless of what your story states, compairng the two is truly ignorant. Hillary is an American born yale law school graduate who served as a senator foe two terms and Secretary of state. She's volunteered her time to better the future and legal righrs of children.
Melania is a college dropout who plagerizes, was a porn model who broke immigration laws, is completely hypocritical with her be best bullshit while her misogynist megalomaniac is called husband uses social media as an outlet for his unfettered rage and abuse of others. She ignores the fact that her POS husband cheated on her with at least 3 women because she's a gold digging wench.

Lastly, Hillary beat #Dolt45 by close to 3 million votes.

@Kimberclimbs It's not a personal comparison, but a comparison of their effects internationally. Try reading the article…

@Krish55 a comparison of someone whose had zero responsibility on an I international scale versus someone who was a senator and Secretary of state. Its a stupid comparison.

@Kimberclimbs You're right. But the point was to establish that Hillary was a warmonger

@Byrdsfan Precisely. But liberals can be blind to that the same way trump supporters are blind!

@Kimberclimbs To the comment that Hillary won with 3 million votes. So in a democracy she would have become president. How do Americans reconcile that the loser is the winner and still call themselves a democracy?

@Kimberclimbs, @Byrdsfan I know lots of millennials who agree with you that both candidates were not good. Sad story for America. Headed for bankruptcy and the next generation do not believe in the political system. Where did it go wrong for this country?

@Stig Unrestrained capitalism created the situation.

@Krish55 OK. Where do you see it going from here?

@Krish55, @Byrdsfan And the DNC was shown to not live up to the value of giving everyone a fair chance but tilted the election of their nominee toward Hillary.

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Is this a serious question?? One is an intelligent, accomplished, long serving person. The other is an ex porn model/actress.

Hillary has caused the deaths of a lot more innocent people than Melania.

@Krish55 provide proof of your irresponsible statement.

@Kimberclimbs Irresponsible? She voted for the Iraq war. She supported the destabilizationof Iraq and Syria which created deaths, slavery, loss of women's rights, and the refugee crisis. Do you read International news?

@Krish55 You mean the war authorized by a republican president? Please...

@Secretguy Authorized by Americans from both parties. Facing broad international resistance and betraying the american value of everyone is allowed their opinion when the president stated "you're either with us or against us" (put on the blinders!). Everybody in the West supported the US when the twin towers fell because they felt America did not deserve that. But America's response of flat out war which were funded on debt and has put the country on a road toward bankruptcy was just really bad decisions overall. A targeted attack on Al Kaida would have been the answer. Now every US tax payer has $175,000 in debt. I think of the poor little kids who are born tax to be tax payers and have to carry that burden. The decisions of the US political system the last 17 years has created self inflicted wound that will have an impact the decades and generations to come. And Hillary was part of making it happen.

@Krish55 Do we know that Melania has caused any deaths? Directly or indirectly?

But the good part....with the new tax cuts for billionaires, the debt has exploded beyond all reason, thanks to your friendly, neighborhood republican.

@Secretguy For him it's a great political tactic to reduce taxes and increase the deficit. Make people feel better off during the first term will almost certainly secure him a second term. Most Americans don't follow the government deficit and debt problems - can't feel the impact so they ignore it. Unless there is a rise in the sense of morality and principal in the population we should expect Trump to get a second term where he will enrich his friends and himself.

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Kind of hard to compare those two. Hillary is the bitch from hell. Melania is a beautiful classy lady.

...who sells herself!

You're a misogynist.no question about that fact.

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Hillary never worked in the US illegally...

I know many good people who have! By the way, I'm no fan of Melania

@Krish55 Yeah, but her husband wants to deport people working illegally in the US.

@TheGreatShadow Yes , the hypocrisy.

Hillary most certainly has worked in the States illegally. It was why she was fired by a senator in the 70's. She lied and was corrupt even before she married Billary.

@TheGreatShadow meanwhile, Trump has deported people who served faithfully in our military. He has children locked in cages who've been ripped feom their parents.

@Kimberclimbs DOn't even get me started about how we treat our soldirers! A Mariene buddy of mine got wounded 3 times in Iraq and Afghanistan. Last time an IED went off causing schrpnel into his scull. He was denied disability TWICE!

Good job uncle bone spur!

@Holysocks Funny. She was born in Chicago. Please explain illegal. She has never been charged with anything!

@TheGreatShadow You go, Great Shadow. How do these people get so confused?!

@TheGreatShadow
I have committed many crimes and never been convicted.

@TheGreatShadow What a sad story about your Marine buddy.

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It's reasonable to compare them during the time they were/are first ladies. It's a bit early regarding Melania since she does not have as many years in this role as Hillary. Since Hillary had ambitions of a political career herself and I'm not aware of such for Melania - I'd say one can focus on the role of representing women and the female role as first lady.

Personally I think that if Hillary had had any real regard for women and herself she would not have tolerated her husbands infidelity while in office without a divorce of some kind of huge humiliating act on his part. That she did not leads me to think their marriage was more of a business arrangement than a loving one - either way kind of sad.

The stories about trumps infidelity are certainly not flattering for him or her. So far to my knowledge he's not been caught being unfaithful while in office. Hillary is therefore so far in a much worse position in my view.

Stig Level 5 Oct 14, 2018

Umm, but we all have seen ample proof of Cheeto being unfaithful...what difference does it make to Melania if it was committedin or out of office???????? Unfaithful is unfaithful.....period!

@AnneWimsey This is correct if we talk about any random person. I believe the ambition of the person who started this thread is to compare first ladies - if Cheeto was not in office nobody would show much interest in his indiscretions. If that assumption is correct then is makes sense to compare the time in office. If the person why started thus thread had another ambition then perhaps we will be enlightened.

Bill's behavior performing sex acts with White House staff possibly in the oval office and then lying about it to the world on TV was a disrespect to his wife, the white house, the presidency and the country all up. What Trump has done as far as we know is cheating on his wife before taking his current role - so he has not disgraced the white house, the presidency and the country when it comes to this point to the degree that Clinton did. Therefore Hillary let him off with much worse than Melania is so far.

@Stig as one whose former hubby slept around, but more sneakily, I can assure you I would still care, a lot. And it is not your, or anyone else's, place to say if I should divorce the louse!

@AnneWimsey Well now you're just doing what I see religious people do. You found out that I'm better able to argue for my position then you are so you shift topic and try to accuse me if interfering in something I've not said a thing about and never will. The true sign that you feel you've been cornered - which was never my intent since I only reacted to you commenting on my comments to this post.

@Stig buwahahahahaaaa, you, little man, are hysterical in your projections.

@AnneWimsey And now you turn to disrespectful bullying when you have nothing sensible to say. How sad.....

@Stig I said quite a few sensible things, and poised queries. You responded by saying I felt cornered...that projection I mentioned. Go away, you are boring and unable to discourse.

@AnneWimsey Everyone reading this thread is waiting for any good facts or arguments from you - but you bring nothing to support your case - just more bullying. You're welcome to discontinue this conversation if you don't have anything since it right now looks to go nowhere - but it looks like you will continue bullying and insist on having the last word.

@Stig "everyone reading ....is waiting for ....me"????!!!!!
Oh hah haha, that is Your ego talking, sweetie, not mine! Just ridiculous!

@AnneWimsey More insults. Nothing to support your position. QED.

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Trying to compare apples with oranges...not a realistic question! I will however note that Hillary actually does work......

To destabilize Libya and Syria, creating the refugee problem. To promote war with Iran. To support the Iraq war. To sell out to the pharmaceutical companies. Etc

@Krish55 your opinion!
so, you prefer highly-"paid" illegal-alien former porn models?

@AnneWimsey It's an opinion based on facts, which you have not contradicted. You've just dismissed them the way trump dismisses fake news. I also said they're both part of exploitative war mongering. I prefer neither! I'm not into political tribalism.

@Krish55 If one wants to discuss Hillary broadly the topic that she has taken money from foreign dictators into her foundation which could be seen as compromising the US semi democratic system is really very shady.

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Worse in what way? They are very different.

Worse for the world at large. Read the article.

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