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Emotional Availability: Where does the "vulnerability" end and the stupidity begin?

I am totally asking for a friend, who has been accused of not having emotional availability.

So there are lots of articles and advices about being emotionally available in dating situations. How does one know whether one hasn't met the right person to show that "emotional vulnerability," or whether one has too much (and unrealistic) expectations regarding the person worth while to show that "vulnerability"?

The "friend" in question was told that he needs to "put in the effort" to show interest, but why is effort needed if it was the right connection? If so, wouldn't that happen in due course without the "effort"? Or is he just full of shit, which I admit is probable.

What is the value of being "vulnerable" for the sake of being (or rather, appearing to be) "vulnerable"?

Asking this for purely academic interest.

AtheistReader 7 Oct 14
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18 comments

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2

Letting someone in to the core of your who you are should only be reserved for special people. The stupidity is when you put yourself out there and don’t discern with whom you expose yourself.
“Never go full retard”

1

If you do not put in at least 80% (100% is ideal) you will have 0% of a relationship. And i do not mean spending tons of money, either. A warm embrace, a cup of coffee, a phone call now & then just to stay connected....if your heart is truly in it, theses things come easily. Maybe you need to keep looking.

1

I havent dated in close to 40 years. I don't understand why someone has to be "vulnerable" to be emotionally open & honest. I have had my heart broken. It heals. I tell my kids when they are suffering a heartbreak, if my heart had not been broken a time or 2, I never would have met their Papa!

Della Level 6 Oct 15, 2018
3

I have generally regarded this as the complaint of a creative, intuitive, emotional person. Many of these are attracted to us heady, low-energy, introverted types precisely because we have the stability, reliability, depth and consistency that they lack. We're their rock ... but then they find that the rock, in time, becomes a boat anchor. They often can't handle a different style in the long run.

I suspect you (or your friend, lol) are being asked to be something you/they are not. Also, if you're being told to "put in the effort" there's clearly an implicit notion that you're lazy or deliberately holding out, which is a pretty huge and accusatory assumption that completely ignores the several other possible explanations.

Although we're thankfully pretty well matched emotionally and in emotional style, my wife has a tendency to assume that if I'm distracted, lost in thought, or cranky, it must be about her somehow. The plea for some particular emotional display is really, often, a plea for a style that doesn't press buttons, mostly buttons having to do with personal insecurity. The best you can do is, if it's not about them, tell them so, and if they triumphantly insist that you're lying, then understand that there's nothing you can do to reason with someone who thinks they know better than you do what your real feelings and motivations and internal state are, and you're going to have to respond accordingly. As soon as a person you're in a trust relationship starts telling you what you're thinking and feeling and considers themselves a better authority or source of information on that than you ... well, you have a serious problem on your hands.

One or more of three things is true:

  1. They're gaslighting you or are deluded about you.
  2. They actually DO see you more clearly than you see yourself
  3. There's some chronic disconnect between your internal state and your affect

(2) and (3) you can potentially address to an extent. (1) you likely need to run, not walk, to the exit.

"creative, intuitive, emotional" type here: can confirm.

1

You show a fair amount of emotional vulnerability to come here and talk about "your friend". Maybe it will happen someday, for you and me both.

2

Your second paragraph makes it sound like the person being accused of holding-out IS actually holding out intentionally, or feels that emotions would magically flow forth from them if the right person came along. Maybe you are slow to warm up... or maybe you don't ever warm up really. Either are totally okay, and not everyone is everyone else's cup of tea. Either way, it's you, just doing you. That is...UNLESS you think that with the right person, it'd just flow forth... in which case, by your definition, that person clearly isn't the right one for you, or you have reservations. But, that magical flowing out concept is likely BS. It sounds to me like you are naturally reserved with your emotions. Wait...did I say "you?" Ehhem, I mean "this hypothetical friend".

2

in my experience i is all about much more about perspective unfortunately that whether you are or are not.

We all are I believe vulnerable to/with/for the right people and connections, however, that doesn't mean the other person will recognize it. Everyone has their own idea on what it looks like or feels like to them. My ex-wife thought this way about me but reality was she was looking for different displays/feelings than she got from me. I can accept some of that is mine, however, the reality is she wanted things that were more romance novel/movie character than I believe life really is. She couldn't identify where/how I was emotionally available to her and even if I did help her see my "vulnerabilities it didn't make her feel the way she needed to or should feel for that matter. I think people get stuck believing/expecting things are going to be a certain way and nothing will ever fix that for them until they can drop expectations and just do life as it is.

Not many of my best relationships took any effort, or I didn't feel like they did. They just were and good or bad they were relatively easy from my perspective. Life is east I find when you are honest, with yourself and others, and do the best you can to make the people you are closest to feel important and special. Sometimes those are grand gestures and sometimes it is a simple hug when they don't know or think they need one. Shouldn't be hard to figure out if you care for them

2

I guess if it was right or the right person then you wouldn't need to show all the effort. People always say they "just want it to happen", but then contradict themselves. They want that initial superficial feeling. "Showing effort" or forcing it is probably why so many people are incompatible, and also probably why 50% of marriages end in divorce and the majority of the rest seem to be in less than ideal marriages. It's because people try to force things. We actively search out mates and a lot of people "settle" and try to force the puzzle pieces. People seem to like the artificial instead of the natural. It's sexier and more entertaining. It's "adventurous" and probably what gives everyone the "butterflies". It doesn't last though. It's also probably why people who are truly compatible with each other cheat and or stray from the relationship. So I guess we're all just fucked lol

Username checks out 😉

@stinkeye_a I didn't say I was immune lol

5

Relationships take effort, everything worthwhile does.

2

I've asked myself the same question. I separated from my wife a little over 6 years ago. Obviously it had an effect and not unrequited love before you ask. I'm quite happy on my own doing my own thing and do think it would be nice to share things with someone but..........while I do generally think of myself as likable I don't think I'm particularly fanciable but I'm also aware that I may well be on my own because a) I don't ask & b) I'm so not sure that I want to risk going thru what I've been thru again and that I may not be 'available' and those are the vibes I give off.

4

Thank you, everyone. This is far more complicated than I thought. 🙂

Why can't all this be simple. 🙂 I am joking. But, thank you. This dating thing is hard. I make friends fairly easily and have the ability to maintain friendship, but this dating thing requires, it seems, a whole new set of social skills and awareness that I feel i am unfamiliar with.

Once again, thanks for being the dating support group. 🙂

I share your feelings ?

1

There is no value. Either he likes her or he doesn't. Maybe he needs to let go of the past? Just a little bit. I know that is really difficult.

3

I do think that it requires some effort. I think that it "just happening" is an unrealistic romantic view put forward in movies. How much effort is stalking and how much is required is a question. Both people need to be close to the same place and it's complicated.

9
  1. Someone is interested or not. People should respond authentically and not fake things. Nobody should be pressuring anyone else to have feelings or behave in a way that is not natural for them.
  2. People have different ways of expressing themselves. Some people are not demonstrative. That's fine. If Someone doesn't like the way Person expresses themselves, they don't need to be friends (or lovers, or whatever) with Person. See also: item #1.
  3. People in dating (and other) relationships often have levels of interest and/or attachment that are mismatched, or develop at different rates. There's nothing wrong with that. If Someone doesn't like it, they can jog on.
  4. People have vastly different barometer settings when it comes to emotional availability. Nobody's got the right to tell Person how to manage theirs--unless they are a qualified professional, and Person is paying them to do so.
  5. There is a point at which being emotionally "closed off" is detrimental to relationships, but it's up to Person--and no one else--to decide how to deal (or not) with that.
  6. Vulnerability requires trust; neither can be coerced. Anyone who would try to force either is likely a dumpster fire of codependency and/or other psychological ill-health and no one with whom to have a close relationship.
  7. Vulnerability for the sake of appearances is a sham and a miscarriage of boundaries.

This sums up what I could say and adds a level of emotional intelligence I do not possess.

Awesome and well thought out. But I'm also stuck on this whole effort thing....I mean...was that the straw that broke that camel's back? Cause whether you're meant to be or not, you still have to put in effort. Relationships are not easy. Things happen. People change. Not every day is good. A certain effort is required for maintenance, just like with everything else you want kept up.

3

Being vulnerable involves exposing your weakest parts to another person. You need to know you can trust them first before you do that because once you have exposed your vulnerabilities, they can use them to harm you if they want. Sure, it can also foster closeness and so when you can trust someone, you would want to be vulnerable but not until then. If a person is upset because you aren't being vulnerable fast enough for them, that should be cause for suspicion. A person who can be trusted will also understand that building trust is a lengthy process and will wait. A person who is eager to get you to be vulnerable is likely seeking ammunition for control tactics.

This coming from someone who has done it wrong every time and can only really tell you what not to do. I do know what happens when you are too vulnerable too soon. I had to be knocked around far too many times before I finally learned that lesson.

5

I recommend watching the wonderful, funny, 20-minute TED Talk by Dr. Brene' Brown, "The Power of Vulnerability."

Dr. Brown interviewed couples who have been happily married for 50 years or more. What's the difference? These happily married couples are"whole-hearted" and are vulnerable and kind with each other.

This Ted Talk by Brene' Brown changed my life.

[ted.com]

A) It's not me, and
B) I don't even hang out with people like that.

🙂 I have seen this before, I will see it again, and I will meditate on this. Thanks.

Most of it, I am afraid, is a platitude. I understand that there is some risk (courage) that is involved in being a part of a meaningful interpersonal relationship. But there is courage and then there is foolishness. (In fact, she never got to the discussion that distinguishes courage from bravery as she promised. 🙂 ) The wisdom is knowing the difference.

This wisdom, I lack. Perhaps then the default should be the risk-taking.

2

I am a naturally guarded person, and my life choices don't just affect me... So, if someone isn't willing to take me at my word and understand that I don't vulnerable, then their loss. I get the appeal of going "all in" early and riding the emotional rollercoaster of getting to know someone and build a relationship, because those highs are high. But, the lows are too risky in my book. So, tell your "friend" that he should follow his instincts and not let anyone guilt him into behaving otherwise.

Thanks! I think that is the consensus. My "friend" reports that he is feeling better. 🙂

Spot on. Right now at age 62 it's a little late to be starting over. Being "vulnerable" can have a financial side, I hate to say it but I don't have time to make it over again.

8

I think being accused of being "emotionally unavailable" can often be
an attempt at emotional blackmail. The person making the accusation
isn't getting what they want, and they aren't playing fair.
I also think anyone making those accusations is not anyone I'd want to be
in a relationship with.

If someone is reticent, and slow to show their vulnerabilities, there is usually
a damned good reason for it. To have another person demand it, as if it's their
due, is a great big red flag to me.
Don't tell me at what pace I need to be moving.

My "friend" thanks you. 🙂 I will tell him that he may not be as full of shit as he was worried to be....

@KenChang Being "full of shit" is not necessarily connected to the pace at which one is comfortable with allowing another person close enough to see to one's vulnerabilities. Being self-aware is the most important factor.

@KKGator
I will, I mean, he will, keep that in mind. 🙂
However, it is easier said than done. For a short time I've been engaged in this online dating, I am discovering more about myself than before, and not all of my discoveries are consistent with my previous self-image. 🙂 I guess if this were easy, everyone would do it, eh? 🙂

@KenChang Good luck to you.

I've completely given up on the idea of another relationship.

@KKGator
Hmmm.. Yeah, don't say that. I am getting there myself. 🙂 I would like to believe that there is hope.

@KenChang Your mileage may vary.
What works for me won't necessarily work for anyone else.
I'm really good with being, and staying, single.

@KKGator

Yes. Mileages vary. But not as much as we tell ourselves they do. 🙂 Anyway, thanks for the words of sanity. I appreciate your wisdom. I don't feel so bad about myself anymore.

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