Agnostic.com

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If you support shutting down a site because it's members are allowed to promote anti-semitic views (Gab.com)...
... would you also support shutting down a site because it's members promote anti-theistic views (agnostic.com)?

How is promoting "Jews are the root of all evil!" different from promoting that "Religion is the root of all evil!"? I suppose a lot of people will answer "because one is true and the other is not".. but seems a small difference between A religion is the root of evil and ALL religions are... after all, A is just a subset of ALL.

The supreme court Matal v. Tam decision made it clear that hate speech is in fact protected speech. That ruling should apply to both anti-semitism and it's super-set, anti-theism.

But I worry.

If the recent gab.com shut-down because of the promotion of it's anti-ideas is the new standard, then I worry that sites like agnostic.com will be next by allowing the promotion of its anti-idea. Personally, I've never been a fan of either anti-semitism nor anti-theism but I have no problem with either expressing their views and thus as I don't agree with the shut-down of gab for allowing anti-semitic content, I wouldn't agree with the shut-down of agnostic for allowing anti-theistic content.

What is your opinion on the matter?

TheMiddleWay 8 Oct 30
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35 comments (26 - 35)

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1

It’s always the other people who are bigoted, hateful, ignorant, etc . Our own dear selves are truthful, courageous, intelligent to the point of genius, empathetic, loving, fair minded, etc etc.

I wonder if the response would have been different it had been a bunch of Jehova’s Witnesses or something that got shot.

1

I don’t think gab or sites like it should be taken down. If we ban one part of free speech because it is offensive, more and more speech will be banned on this basis. Now the member who posted their violent intents on Gab - and horrifyingly followed through - should absolutely be banned. On basis that what they said was directly inciting or theatening violence. Gab did voluntarily turn over all info they had on this member to the FBI. Gab did the right thing here.

Similar violence threatening and inciting posts have been posted on Facebook, Twitter etc. with those members ultimately being banned and their postings becomeing part of the evidence against them. A whole platform such as Gab shouldn’t be shut down because one or many members crossed the line from free speech (even if hateful) to outright inciting violence - unless it is clear that the platform is not willing to properly intervene. At this point there is proof that Gab is willing to properly intervene. Though they may need to step up their monitoring so it can be handled more quickly.

KDay Level 1 Oct 30, 2018

It is also important that everyone has a free speech platform - so that threats of violence publicly posted can then be used to tip off the appropriate authorities and then the post/user banned.

1

Hate speech is protected. Inciting violence is not protected. If members are advocating for violent action, then the site owners have to make a decision. Do they wait and see what happens? Do they delete the content? Do they remove the members? Do they take some other action?

@TheMiddleWay I doubt that we would have a problem if members simply keep it factual and avoid vitriolic language.

0

Agnostic.com does not promote hatred & persecution of people who hold different beliefs! Not at all!

Carin Level 8 Nov 3, 2018
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The difference is this. One is real and the other is not. Promoting anarchy is real and should be squelched . Religion is not real , rather a pacifier for those that need it. No problem with that but just keep them away from a society that opts to move forward with free thought.

EMC2 Level 8 Oct 31, 2018
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" How is promoting "Jews are the root of all evil!" different from promoting that "Religion is the root of all evil!"? "

one group in your example has never tried going around and killing the other group..

@TheMiddleWay only one I can think of is China.. which was politically motivated, as the regime thought it threatened their rule, and was specific (not all faithful)

@TheMiddleWay authoritarian regimes repress and kill all kinds of people - dissidents, political opponents, those they consider undesirable, like gay people, and atheists, and intellectuals, and the list goes on, including religious people no doubt if they challenge authoritarianism. Are you suggesting these are anti religious regimes that just kill believers? Come on. Are you really buying into that famous Christian persecution complex? Of course Nero threw Christians to the lions as well. What people don't know is that he threw all kinds of people to the lions. All most people remember or know about now are the Christians.

@TheMiddleWay ok.. your post said.. "views" .. to me that's not the problem .. it's when a site allows and its members seem to be calling for the killing or hurting of a group..
Could you find comments like there here? Yes, but they would be rare I would think and if it got out of hand I believe it would be stopped..

The problem with gabriel.. and people checked this.. was not moderating its members at all and neither were the members.. the site seemed to encourage the hate speech.

0

I think the difference comes from sites like gab where users advocate violence or the loss of freedoms of others where as sites like this don't seem to promote it...

It's like is it freedom of speech if you censor fanatical views or is promoting it by shutting out those whose would be harmed by such fanaticism? Id go with the latter.

0

Gab was not shut down because it had anti-Semitic views. It was shut down because it allowed content that promoted violence for months.

Gab posted a screenshot of the email on Twitter. This is a portion of it:

"In response to recent complaints we received, GoDaddy discovered numerous instances of content on your site that both promotes and encourages violence against people. Further, this content has remained on your site for months despite your own policies and terms of service."

The idea that Gab is being unfairly censored is offensive. It is offensive to compare anti-theism, a viewpoint with no political and cultural power with anti-Semitism which has been included in Christian political policies for at least two thousand years.

I am tired of people characterizing anti-theism as a form of prejudice instead of a legitimate viewpoint. Being opposed to religion and the idea of god is not the same as discriminating against religious people and being opposed to their human rights.

@TheMiddleWay GoDaddy Corporate entities are out to make a profit, and they have no financial incentive to shut down anyone unless they've discovered potential legal liabilities that are going to open them up to financial loss via a lawsuit. You're now creating a no-win debate demanding specific evidence for a site that's been taken offline (how convenient), and no doubt even if someone were to have screenshots and other evidence that Gab was complicit in the mass murder of Jews, you would find a reason to argue and dismiss that too. It's evidence enough that GoDaddy doesn't want to be sued for potentially playing a part in a mass murder and the worst terrorist attack against Jews in American history. If GoDaddy were such a horribly oppressive corporate censor, they would have taken Gab down the first time someone said something shitty.

I should not have to point out the difference between saying something like "religion is abuse and so logically people should be jailed for abuse" and saying "Jews deserve to die." One is an unpopular opinion held by an individual of a vanishingly small religious minority and the other is a viewpoint held by millions of Christian supremacists with institutionalized power for the last two thousand years. Your post and responses to people on this subject are full of these kind of false equivalencies as well as condemning the entire VIEWPOINT of anti-theism because someone made a comment that you personally do not like. You cherry pick the worst sound bites and present it as "proof" that antitheism is an illegitimate viewpoint. You also completely ignore the fact that we're not the ones who actually hold political power, nor do any of us have the social influence required to transform our personal opinions into socio-political policy. You're doing everything you can portray anti-theism as a dangerous viewpoint and OMG LOOK THE SKY IS FALLING IF YOU ACCEPT ANTITHEIST SPEECH.

For someone who claims to value free speech and human rights so much, you're doing an excellent job of supporting the religious powers that actually have the power to take that away from you.

0

It should always be the last resort to stop people voicing whatever they wish, however evil it may be. Because if it is hateful, then let it be seen in the clear light of day, and let it be exposed to reasoned counter argument, you will not always win but you will some of the time, while forcing it underground and other unfair ways of winning the argument only loose you the moral high-ground. And those who can win the argument fairly will always keep talking, those who know they will loose the argument, especially unfairly, reach for weapons.

@OwlInASack No I did not say that it would win, only that any other way only makes it worse.

0

Didn't the Constitution say something about all men being created equal and something about freedom of religion?

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