Agnostic.com

3 2

LINK Notes on Antisemitism

Some history and analysis

Krish55 8 Oct 31
Share

Enjoy being online again!

Welcome to the community of good people who base their values on evidence and appreciate civil discourse - the social network you will enjoy.

Create your free account

3 comments

Feel free to reply to any comment by clicking the "Reply" button.

0

leupp admits that the gospels are full of fiction and yet uses a story from them to explain his point (give us barrabas -- yeah, was that even a THING?) some interesting points, some... not so much.

g

0

Thank you for the historical perspective. Unfortunately our POS POTUS has followers who are White Supremists and Neo-Nazis. He refuses to condemn them. This perpetuates the hate and allows mass murderers to function. This will continue till we have a true leader who stops the hate.

0

The author's point that Christianity has tended to hold Jewry collectively responsible as "Christ killers" is interesting because the concept of corporate guilt and punishment is a strong thread running through Christianity, and ironically, appropriated from the Jewish Torah. The deity would, if a tribe was collectively disrespectful and non-compliant enough with his demands, punish them AS a tribe. This was the basis for Jehovah's commands of genocide against the Canaanite peoples. It was the basis for the supposedly Jehovah-caused diaspora in Babylon, where the entire Israeli population was sent into bondage, and considered collectively culpable, even totally innocent individuals. The best thing you can say, if you believe the legends, is that the best of the best (e.g., Shadrach, Meshack and Abednego) were miraculously spared torture and death -- but even they remained in exile.

Once you accept the notion normally limited to power-crazed despots that you don't just punish an individual, but torture and execute his entire family while he's forced to watch and listen and THEN kill him, all sorts of bad things flow from that. It makes it exponentially easier to lump entire groups together and attempt to wipe them out AS groups.

If there's a better example of "what goes around, comes around" then I don't know what it is. The Jews promoted this kind of thinking, and a religion spawned from that, gained greater power and mindshare, and now uses that to persecute and kill Jews. This doesn't of course make it right or something that we should allow, that is not my point. My point is that religion is the "gift" that keeps on "giving" and people should be more careful what notions they advocate, as they have a way of coming back to bite you in your nether regions.

I lay some of the fascistic paranoia against immigrants in the US on human nature but I also lay a lot of it at the feet of fundamentalist Christianity, which through its concept of collective guilt and entitlement, amplifies tribalism, even elevates it to a virtue. And evangelicals are the main apologists and enablers of Trumpism and white nationalism.

yes because modern jews stone people to death if they wear mixed fabrics and... oh poo, that's so ridiculous. you read torah and think you know what a jew is and what a jew believes and what a jew does. i have news for you: i didn't write the damned bible. there are people who want to kill me without knowing i individually exist ANYWAY. and you say "what goes around comes around." feh.

g

@genessa In no way are you personally responsible for what is in the scriptures or how fundamentalist Christians misappropriate and distort it.

And yes ... there's a difference between ancient and modern Jewish teaching and practice, and for that matter there are differences between fundamentalist, conservative and liberal Judaism and between religious and cultural Judaism.

Group / tribal / national guilt and culpability are probably not even original with Judaism for all I know; I'm only addressing what I do know, which is that the concept isn't original with Christianity and those notions in Christianity come from their reading of the Torah. Or at least that was the only citation for the idea that I was ever given back in the day. And as I said ... that doesn't justify hating on Jews at any level. It's just a sad ironic footnote of history that Christian fundies don't even realize the etymology, if you will, of their own thinking.

@mordant did you ever read and/or see the film version of the fixer? it is based on the true story of mendel beilis (renamed yakov bok for the novel and film), a ukrainian jew who dared to work in kiev (it was forbidden for jews to live or work there) and somehow got himself accused of killing (and drinking the blood of) a christian child. he was incarcerated for three years without being indicted. his case drew international attention and he was given a trial and found not guilty. anyway, in the novel and film, the guards give him a christian bible to read and he discovers that jesus was a jew and informs the guards that in hating jews, they hate jesus. this does freak them out of course.

g

You can include a link to this post in your posts and comments by including the text q:213103
Agnostic does not evaluate or guarantee the accuracy of any content. Read full disclaimer.