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Is FAITH in anything absurd all the time? Do we need faith ever?

I define faith as the belief in something while lacking any credible evidence that it's real.
I reject faith. I find it to be a useless tool for any purpose. People of faith say I have faith that I won't die today. The fact is I have no evidence showing that I will die and, yet I am still aware that the possibility exists that I could. If I said, I know that no harm will come to me today, this is where the line from a reasoned belief based on evidence and experience crosses over to the realm of faith. It's in the asserting that I can trust (in unknowable knowledge) that all event that will occur today will not cause me lethal harm.

paul1967 8 Feb 14
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21 comments

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4

I think having faith in yourself is important. Especially when faced with impossible situations.

Faith in yourself, is first and foremost above everything else. Beyond that is faith in those around you.

That is a different use of the word.

He is specifically talking about the belief in a factual proposition for reasons other than the evidence.

Faith and belief can add to creativity. Imagining something is possible and using critical thinking to make it happen. @ScottAHurst

Wouldn't that be called "confidence" in one's self? I feel that those are two very different things.

When debaters get philosophical, they distinguish between faith and belief or hope. But in the vernacular, we tend to overlap definitions that are technically not there. It's good to look up words before you debate someone like Dillahunty or Ra, or really any religious person. Get your facts straight because the latter won't.

4

I don't understand why anyone would use faith when science is available, other than wishful thinking and confirmation bias and we all do that to some extent.

3

aaaah! it feels like you have "spoken from my soul" (clumsily translated from german). i can actually not distinguish between faith & belief; both require me to see something i do not see. i reject them both, together with hope, another make-believe 😀

Why is it that "faith" and "hope" seem to go hand in hand?

@NaturalBornCynic, hope is faith in the future. anything that requires me to accept something i do not experience is make-believe.

We can believe things we see. Religious people often can't.

@GoldenMean, i KNOW a thing if i see it; belief doesn't enter the equation here.

No belief in science, math, your neighbor's word? Nothing you believe?

@GoldenMean, it seems we use the word belief in different contexts. anything scientific is provable, & where there is evidence belief becomes superfluous (that includes math). i hear my neighbour or whoever speaking; that is a sensual experience for which i do not require belief. but, hey!... you don't have to believe me.... roflmao!

3

One must define faith first. The dictionary definition is generally two-fold, and when you look closely, you see that they are near-polar opposites:

  1. Trust based on experience, or what I call simply "trust".
  2. Belief without a requirement of evidence, or what I call "religious faith".

Theists love to conflate the two, comparing the failed epistemology of religious faith to the colloquial meaning of the word, in an attempt to elevate (2) to make it more rational like (1).

@DavidLaDeau mentions he trusts his wife (definition 1) based on his knowledge of and experience with her. That's not religious faith, it's deserved / earned trust.

So ... if when asking "Is faith in anything absurd all the time", if you mean trust, the answer is no. If you mean religious faith, the answer is yes. Although religious faith can occasionally be right, like a stopped clock is right twice a day, in general, there is no difference in outcomes between religious faith and random happenstance.

Well said!

3

I am an apistevist- I do not use faith in decision making. I do trust my wife. I do not think some magical unicorn will keep her from cheating on me. She has not and does not display the propensity to cheat on me. I trust her. I do not have "faith", in her. We have been married for 20 years I have no need for wishful thinking that she will not cheat on me. I have evidence.
Could circumstances change with new evidence that she did cheat on me. Even if this was the case '"faith" would have done me no good.

well put. i'm on the same page, & couldn't have phrased it better.

3

Trust, belief, confidence, conviction; optimism are some of the synonyms for the word "faith".

We can use any of them instead and it would have the same meaning. It is a personal choice and I think we sometimes use the word faith out of habit.

Betty Level 8 Feb 14, 2018

I have gotten to dislike the word all together. It is often used out of context by apologist, simply to confuse the listener. They will often switch syntax mid sentence just to be misleading.

@DavidLaDeau

In that case, it can be corrected.

2

You can split semantic hairs with 'faith'. Maybe it shouldn't be used for belief in ordinary things. We say, I have faith in you.' People know it means I can see you going forward, hope with evidence.

2

faith in your fellow human being

When you have used the word faith in your sentence you are expressing the sharing of a common ideal. Not trust or the unfounded belief in magic. There are many usages of the word, this is not the one the person whom made the post was speaking of.

@DavidLaDeau Thank you

2

Thank you for not just leaving the question without defining your terms - you get 10 points..

Of course that kind of faith is useless, but it seems to take us some mental gymnastics to get to that conclusion. And part of that intellectual exercise is understanding possibilities and probabilities, so my advice is to remain cautiously optimistic! It's what I do.

2

I don't have faith in anything either. I know that the odds of something causing my death are minimal at the moment and so it is rational to believe that I probably won't die today. I prefer to say that it is highly unlikely that I will die going about my daily routine.

I will say I have no idea what the next moment will produce and I do not concern myself about it. I take whatever necessary steps I can for my best outcomes based on what evidence, fact or data indicate.

1

Per you definition, no.

1

"Faith does not give you the answers, it just stops you asking the questions." - Frater Ravus

I also like this quote.

in plain english: faith makes you gullible.

Well said

1

My ex-wife's Father use to say... "You can wish in one hand, and shit in the other and see what you get first." This is how I equate faith to.

If I could add to that, I would say, and shit is at the very least more useful.

1

I lived in Harlem for a long time; before other people started moving. When those people were reluctant to go past 96th St. Back then, when i'd leave home I'd wonder if I would make it back home. Then I moved to Staten Island and I wonder I would make it home. Now I live in St. Alabama queens ny and I have FAITH that I will make it home. It may take all night but I have I will get there. Does that count?

My definition of faith is the belief in something while lacking any credible evidence that it's real. If you have a credible reason to believe one way or the other, then it doesn't meet the definition. If you believe vacant of any evidence then it would count.

1

I consider myself a humanist and I believe that each other is all we have so, I have faith in the positive human qualities in a large number of us. Not all, some are "lost" due to religious brainwashing and/or lack the intellectual ability to discern. However I don't feel the responsibility to try to educate them and be an atheist zealot. I believe that religion is what is wrong with the world.

1

Faith is a choice. There are still things of faith that we take though. You can have faith in a spouse being there for you and being true to you. You may define that as trust, so that may not be what you are talking about. But I still believe in science and what I can prove. But there are somethings that fall outside the scope of science that requires trust which some would define as faith.

Your thoughts???

1

Faith is not helpful. Hope is a way better condition than faith.

hope is just the future case of faith. both are a kind of make-believe - if you pardon the pun.

0

agree with you totally - when I first read it I thought what phrase would stand in for - Making a leap of faith? and then i just thought oh! 'rust yourself!'

0

I have faith when I cross a bridge that the engineers and builders did their job. Same with travelling on airplanes, trains, big boats, if we didn't have that type of faith, no one would ever leave their house! And after reading these posts, probably a better term to use in these circumstances wouldbe 'trust'.

why would you need faith, defined as "believing in something because the evidence is lacking", in regards to manmade structures, where evidence is the very basis on which engineers construct their works?

0

There’s no evidence for most of what in the Bible except the Bible. What is there to have faith in? While we can’t prove there is no higher power neither can the religous nuts prove there is.

0

Parts of our life, and very important parts at that, are based on faith. If you think deeply, you will realize that the whole monetary system is based of faith. To a lesser degree you also have faith in your immediate family not to betray you. In short, faith as such is not an absurd, but some faiths are.

I think I understand what you're saying. However, I used a particular definition of faith, and I would say that we have reasonable cause to believe those things

The faith in the monetary system is exactly faith rather than trust. People do not even think about doubting it. the rampant German inflation of the late twenties and early thirties does not even cross the mind of the uneducated. Lack of faith in religion is much more prevalent among the clergy than among the flock, especially in the higher echelon of the clergy. The lack of faith in the monetary system is the same. The people who deal with it professionally are more likely to be infidels.

I agree, with family and friends as with the justice system, it is trust rather than faith.

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