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The USA experience from a UK perspective.

Hi. For years, I've been listening to conversations via podcasts, debating theory with 'believers' and watching the gradual shifts in popularity for the church, back and forth.
One overriding characteristic of the 'Other Side's' style is a very quick fallback to the default position of fury. As soon as challenges are proposed, based on evidence or any hint of critical thinking, anger can be swift in its efficient closure of debate.
Does nobody consider that this merely serves to illustrate deep insecurity? Are the minds of the fundamental thinkers all so closed?
We have our own brand of passionate believers here in the UK but its rare to receive such a vitriolic response when argument is entered into. Any thoughts?

Richard_Hesketh 2 Jan 25
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8 comments

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0

Many of the British North American Colonies were founded, in part, to be dumping grounds for religious denominations, unwanted elsewhere. Over time, they acquired political influence. Now, we are stuck with them.

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‘Over here,’ Religion becomes one’s tribe, their family, their identity.. So any criticism questions said ‘family.’ And them’s fightin words! And, true believers are the dumbest among us..

I view Britain's government sanctioned church as something most folks would consider government first, and church second.. And who ‘likes government?’ To the point of it being cool to disrespect, or at least question both.

Over here, where ‘religious freedom’ has run amok, religions fight among themselves, with other denominations, and of course - with us 😉

Varn Level 8 Jan 25, 2019
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I cannot disagree.
"Righteous indignation" is the go-to for most believers when challenged.
They can't accept any criticism, constructive or otherwise.
They will refuse to even consider any position other than their own.
They are extremely insecure. They will respond with fury whenever their
delusions are challenged.
That's not just christians, either.

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Awreet there Richard. Lancashire lass here who brings a different perspective to the discussion. I am a US greencard holder (although they may want it back now) although I returned to UK 18 years ago. I lived in AZ for many years. I have travelled back several times since. Previous to that I lived in SE Asia and travelled for 10 years. The UK, for the most part, is a diverse nation who have always eventually accepted the influx of different cultures, religions and traditions. Our history of this goes way way back, even further back than the Romans. Of course we have our own racists and those who are particularly loquacious on whatever subject they believe in, but generally they are silenced by the pragmatic mass of British society. There are many differences to USA but here is my take on it

  1. The UK, has for decades followed policies of multi-culturalism rather than assimilation. I could write reams as to the problems inherent with this and these policies can not easily be undone without cries of racism.
  2. We do not have guns. I am not saying we do not have murders because this is patently not true. However it means that physical fights are common and murders less so. People can and do sort out problems violently without fearing being shot.
  3. We do not have the same right to free speech. We do (HRA, 1998) but not to the same extent. Celebs can sue, we need to ensure anything we say is not considered hate speech or promoting violence towards religious groups.
  4. For the most part we do not have a religious right. Traditionally in the UK religious people tended to be politically left leaning. British conservatives are the party of business and a laisez faire approach to worker's rights.
  5. It cannot be overstated, we shipped a lot of the religious fundamentalists to US. This gave a clear message to Brits, "you can have god but he comes third after football and beer"
  6. What you see are extremes. Good telly requires it. In my experience, most Americans are hardworking, pragmatic, sensible people who just want to get on with their lives.

I suppose we do have some vitrolic religious nuts but for the most part being a 'god-squadder', is seen as something quite negative here.

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American minds are not closed. It's just that those on both sides of issues have trouble knowing what the other side has said. Hearing it or even seeing it in print is not enough any longer. People claim it might be "fake news." When you tell them this claim came in with the Orange Orangutan they all deny it by claiming we have always had "fake news."

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minds? are you thinking they have minds?

g

Not like there aren't any hooligans in the UK.

@godef so did i even mention the uk? did you mean to respond to the original poster (who, by the way, wasn't talking about hooligans, or even nastiness in general) and respond to me by accident? this smacks of what-aboutism. ("you smacked your sister! go to your room!" "why do i have to go to my room, johnny down the street are a cockroach!" )

g

@godef We don't really anymore. They are still there but fights following football matches are not as common as they once were...there is one reason for that in my mind...girls.

@genessa Sorry should've used a wink emoje. I was being a smart aleck

1

Well you're right. It does. And it's infuriating. And there's no arguing with them. I've begun stating things they can't deny. For example, the need to "spread the word"is a cornerstone of their faith. So whenever I'm in a debate, say, over separation of church and state, I'll start throwing their words back at them. I'll say something like, "of course they want 'in god we trust' on patrol cars....they've been tasked by their god to spread the gospel, to 'shout it from the mountaintops'. So they've given a mission to promote their religion."
And they'll look at me, but won't say anything because I'm right and they know it. Actually, some of the more ignorant (therefore radical) ones just stare back with this look that says "and????" But the beauty of this new experiment so far, is noticing the ones on the fence thinking about my words...I believe I've swayed numerous "fence sitters" to fall off into my pasture....

1

It is the sad old truth that, those who know they will loose all the arguments are the first to reach for their guns.

Many people are brought up in the religious world where "faith" or belief without evidence, is praised as a virtue. And with that comes the idea that truth is not an objective thing, to be sought at any cost, but is always that which confirms what you wish to be true. When you have two such different approaches to understanding as that, then there can never be a meeting of minds, if you have spent your whole life being taught that if you like it to be true, then that is truth, the idea that truth could demand effort and personal pain to find and involve having to go through revision of your world view, which is the rationalist approach, is completely alien.

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