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LINK NJ signs on to Death with Dignity

Another state signs on to Death with Dignity. By my count this is 7 with 43 to go. Slowly, states are getting on board with this ultimate human right.

JackPedigo 9 Apr 5
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1

If needed, I would just use one of many ways to end it. I do not think relying a a law and the assistance of doctors would help, especially if one faces dementia. There would have to be a way to make the decision before the mind is too far gone.

1

It is your life. You can either live it or terminate it. If in pain you might want termination. A big problem here is getting the invisible man out of your birth and death story so that you might proceed.

0

Sorry, since most likely a judge and two psychiatrists have to approve it, it's no "right." If it is a right can you sue a doctor who refuses to help kill you? What about their right not to help you? We tend to think that people who are suicidal have a mental defect--would you outlaw suicide hotlines if it's a "right?" If it's such an "ultimate human right" shouldn't EVERYONE have it? Not just b.s 6 months to live people (because we know they aren't in pain in the 7th month)? What if you're just fed up or lost your family in the Oklahoma City bombing and just don't want to live anymore? EVERYONE gets it or no one gets it. Should it be discriminatory? Does some legislature get to tell someone under what circumstances they get to use their "ultimate human right?" Well apparently some states think so regarding other "rights." I could give you a list of reasons why assisted suicide wasn't legal in most of the Western world until more recently but I'm sure you don't want to hear them. You can try and get around the term "suicide" but it's one person wanting to kill themselves and another helping=assisted suicide. All that said, I'm a firm believer in that I didnt ask to be here and I get to leave whenever I want. I just can't have help because there is really no way to regulate it. Just my two cents and a year and a half of research on the issue prosecuting Jack Kevorkian, and a 7-0 decision in the Michigan Supreme Court. I now return you to your local stations...

lerlo Level 8 May 19, 2019

I don't know the details but usually it requires a doctor to sign and then re-sign after 15 days to certify the person is sane. Then it requires a consulting physician to sign and the original doctor writes the prescription which has to be taken by the patient. My late partner had no pain or suffering but knew the end was near and this way she could take charge of "her" body. This is NOT considered suicide (the word is not even mentioned in the bills) as the cause of death is the disease that will ultimately kill you. This avoids many legal and insurance hurdles.
Suicide is another issue and 2 countries, Holland and Switzerland have a 'euthanasia' program. In an increasingly overcrowded world and one that is becoming top heavy with seniors why should we not allow people who are no longer happy with their lot in life or have a debilitating, non-lethal disease not be allowed to end their lives in a controlled manner? Why do societies force people who are desperate and kill themselves in manners that are shocking to loved ones or society in general. Some people even choose to take out others with their suicide. This is not a simple issue but it should be dealt with in a non-religious, caring manner.

@JackPedigo I'm sorry about your partner Jack. Changing the name doesn't avoid the issues I mentioned previously. What you're looking for is a pill called "Fade Away" We'll use that term. I'm not sure how you think the cause of death wouldnt be the Fade Away pill. Perhaps you're familiar with The Police Power granted to the government under the constitution to protect for the health and welfare of its citizens. The question is whether you want the U.S. government or a state government pushing life or pushing death. Doctors are supposed to prolong life, not take it away. If a doctor has a choice between trying to relieve someone's pain and suffering or killing them, the easy way out is killing them. In the Netherlands in the 90s patients were wearing necklaces saying don't kill me because 60% were killed without consent. We shouldnt force people to die because the medical profession hasnt adequately handled pain. You said there was nothing wrong with your partner, they just wanted to die. What if the doctors came back saying that a person in such a condition must have a mental defect and we shouldnt condone their death? Then they are in the same position and the government said no. What about their right? The people most concerned with assisted suicide back when i had the case was the handicapped community. Once society decides that there is a life not worth living, there is pressure on a person with that condition to want to die or think they should because society says so. Last I checked the Oregon law had been used by 100 people. We don't make laws for 100 people. Do you want a 15 yr old kid who has no friends, is bullied and whose parents ignore him to be able to take you "Fade Away" pill? Why not? Doesnt he have the same rights as anyone else to Death With Dignity? Maybe you can find a manufacturer to distribute your Fade Away pill but it should be for everyone at any time for any reason. Asking the government or doctors for that matter to help people die, why it may sound humane, isnt if they decide they won't help. As it was when I had the Kevorkian case, Michigan's Assisted Suicide law allowed doctors to relieve pain and suffering as long as that was the goal, even if it might hasten death. So for instance, giving a patient with Lou Gehrig's disease morphine would ease their pain, but it would also suffocate them. Under the law this would be ok. The Hippocratic Oath, governments not wanting to promote death and the Equal Protection Clause are all obstacles no matter what you want to call it.

@lerlo As I said it is complicated and safety measures have to be built in the program. However, I and many others on this site feel it should be our prerogative to terminate our life when it gets unbearable. My partner was the most intelligent and reason based person I ever met and the first words out of her mouth when she was given the prognosis of brain cancer was would the doctor honor Death with Dignity. He said he would and out local physician remarked when the 15 days were up and he had to state her mental condition (there were about 6 of us in the room, was that she was the sanest person in the room. I also disagree that the doctor's duty is to preserve life. It should also be to reduce or stop suffering. We discovered the besides our regular doctor there were 2 other doctors (one of which helped write Washington's Death w Dignity law and the other active in the endoflifewa program. I see this program differently and nothing will make me change my mind and states are continuing to sign on because they see the value in this program.

@JackPedigo You get to terminate your life whenever you want to, you just might not like how you have to do it. Unfortunately the medical profession doesnt see it like you do. Are there doctors that will do it? Sure. There has been euthanasia forever. Juries also don't normally convict family members charged with assisted suicide. I'm not trying to change your mind, just explain why it's not an ultimate human right and the obstacles to trying to make it one. Luckily for me, because many others here disagree is irrelevant because they havent done the research or understand the problems associated with such practices. It's merely an emotional issue for many people who have seen loved ones in pain and suffering, they don't care about the issues.
You fail to see that if OTHER PEOPLE get to decide that you're sane or it's ok for you to kill yourself--it's no longer your right.

@lerlo In our state, and I suspect all the others with the program, the doctors don't end one's life. They simply facilitate others being able to do it themselves. Our doctor said that out of many people enrolling in the program and actually getting the medications not all use it (I suspect they listen to their 'loved' ones who talk them out of it). Just like al other fields the medical field evolves. This question is being asked more and more and many doctors are taking another look at their duties. Unfortunately, there are rules and laws on sanity and living in a society this is important for others. Also, I do see it as killing yourself but simply deciding when to end one suffering. My late partner asked her 2nd graders which is more important, people or dirt. We need to know our lowly place in the universe/planet and each individual must look to their own personal meaning in life. Ending or preventing suffering is, to me, a top meaning. I am also posting a link to this topic. BTW, my partner was all upbeat about the medications being delivered the next day and we had a small party to celebrate. She had her last meal and we watched a humorous program together. Unfortunately, just hours before the ferry arrived with the medications she went into a coma and died that night. I donated the medications back into the system.

@JackPedigo Again I'm sorry you had to go through that. But while you're "spreading the word" you might want to re-think suggesting that the death certificate from someone taking a drug that kills them would just say "cancer" or as you put it, whatever their underlying disease was. This would be fraud and any doctor doing so would lose their license. You also don't consider the people who might not be able to afford such medication, do they not have the same right? Anyway, I don't expect you to address these questions either, just something to think about.

@lerlo I am again sorry but I/we had lengthy talks with the physician who helped write the law. The death certificate says whatever was killing the person. In her case it was anaplastic astrocytoma [en.wikipedia.org]. This is a legal method and it means insurance companies pay and there are no suicidal terms or ideas used. In states this program is legal Doctors have the right to participate or not without any repercussions.

The cost is a problem. In the beginning the French made the medication for this purpose only. When it was used for a capital punishment case the French dropped it. A Canadian firm had the drug on the market for almost 100 years (a sleeping capsule) they would deliver 100 capsules and one had to empty all in a liquid. The price went through the roof. In Seattle another drug was formulated and it was around $500. There was a small issue and the other doctor (on our island) sat with other anesthesiologists and reformulated the drug. Again, $500. I donated the unused drug (the seal was intact and it was refrigerated. Later our pharmacists thanked me for my letter and said a (unnamed) person sent a check for $1,500 to be used in case one could not afford the drug. In the world and this country especially rights do come down to money. There's no way around that but it should not be abolished because some can't afford it. The whole idea of regressive taxes or funds doesn't fly with me. It is used to stop such things as anti-smoking campaigns.

1

I am an advocate for this. I think that it may go deeper in years to come because people who commit suicide will do it regardless of what is said to them. You can't convince someone to stay somewhere they don't want to be.

True but the Death with Dignity laws are not about suicide. It is about taking charge when one has been given a diagnosis of a terminal illness. Right now Switzerland and the Netherlands are the only 2 countries that have made euthanasia as legal. The rest of the world has a long way to go to catch up.

2

People should be allowed to end their lives whenever they feel like it, with medical assistance.

4

People shouldn't be forced to suffer when there's no hope of recovery or regaining quality of life.

Here is a link that I wrote that was printed in all 3 of our local papers.
[sanjuanjournal.com]

0

Did what I could for Oregon’s Death With Dignity ballot measure when I believe it was the first passed in the nation.. The religious (with tremendous out of state funding) assured us we’d become ‘the death capital of the united states!’

There’d be the occasional news article describing folks going through the motions, or legal procedure, but they seemed rare. Not sure about the various rules & regulations in other states, but it seemed the old methods of suicide remained far easier…

Varn Level 8 Apr 5, 2019

HBO did an excellent documentary about Oregon's law that everyone should watch. It did a great job explaining the safeguards that are in place to make sure it is totally the person's choice.

I started writing and posting here about this issue when a cover story appeared on our local paper about suicide prevention. Of course the local Catholic hospital had suggestions to prevent suicide. I wrote a long letter but had to shorten it to get it on all 3 of our local papers. NPR, coincidentally had a report which I also added.
BTW way my late partner opted for this when she was diagnosed with an inoperable brain tumor.
[sanjuanjournal.com]

@JackPedigoTo say that euthanasia programs are unnatural and goes against God’s plan, while at the same time, using all 21st century means to extend a life is pure hypocrisy.” Well put.

The catholic church fought DWD the hardest in Oregon, as mentioned above, with massive out of state funding. So, as my mother in-law slowly died of cancer, with her healthcare of choice being the largest catholic hospital in the region, attempting to dismiss her suffering - they so totally loaded her with painkilling drugs she couldn’t eat..

Her death was slow, painful, and undignified - but Oregonian’s soon approved a choice ~

@Varn Religion is not benign, it is dangerous and anti-democracy. The more I hear of the goings on especially in the Catholic church the more I hope it disappears. Thanks for the information.

A close friend's husband had Parkinsons. He was in the end stages and fell one night and ruptured his bowel. He was helicoptered to a Catholic hospital and by the time his wife got there they had done surgery and put him into an induced coma. He had a do not resuscitate order and his wife had to get a lawyer and threaten to take him to another hospital. They forced the hospitals hand. It took him several days to die but he never came to.

3

You can bet if I find myself in that position I'll find a way. Laws or not.

But with six months to live? You have some quality drugs on hand (usually).

I prescription is usually written for the drugs. Here in Washington there are several to choose from the cheapest are $500.

@JackPedigo ,
the pharma ghouls are always greedy; right to the very end.

@callmedubious A little history: The original drug was provided by the French for just this purpose ($500). It was than used for a capital punishment case and the French withdrew it. Then a Canadian company sold it (it was a sleeping capsule for some 90 years. You were given 100 capsules and had to empty them into a liquid). They had a monopoly and the price rose to over $1,500. A Seattle company made the drug (again $500). I suspect there are local companies in each state where it is legal,, that make it from a set formula.

@JackPedigo Of course they make money on it. Of course most strong narcotics will do it too.
Hopefully if it ever comes to that the information I've found online would do the trick.

Right now about $35 would do it. Of course would I prefer having a relatively easy way to do it with some pills that were prescribed|? Yes.

Ridiculous that folks can't make that decision for themselves.

@RavenCT Just OD on heroin laced with fentanyl. Easy and cheap.

2

That's good news. But it is going too slowly. Fear, traditionalism, religious superstitions and plain ignorance are just too powerful.

Even in the states it is legal there are still places within the state you cannot get 2 doctors to sign. One big problem is that it is not just religious but social. Too many think it is legalized suicide. The law is written that the person dies from the disease that is killing them. The word suicide is not mentioned in the law. This is a new idea and I think that as time progresses people will get more used to it and it will expand.

@JackPedigo Suicide isn't mentioned in the law. It's a religious thing. I often wonder how many people are presently guarding the gates of hell.

@IAJO163 After a lot of discussion and philosophizing I have come to realize there is no heaven. Only stages of hell. Who would inhabit this heaven people talk about? It would be full of hateful, violent bigoted fearful (and maybe armed) people.

@JackPedigo I always wonder that if heaven was such a great place to be then why aren't people clamoring to get there?

@IAJO163 It is going to be BOOOOOOORING!

@IAJO163 I ended my letter by saying that Christians say they can't wait to meet Jesus, but not just yet.

3

Too bad no one in Jersey knows dick about dignity...

Then maybe the dignity will be among the living.

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