LINK Grieving the children of Palestine and the dream of Zionism | Jewish Journal
An older piece but every bit as relevant today.
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"The shameful apologies trying to justify the death of Arab children with trite explanations of ‘collateral damage’ and ‘use children as shields and they will die’ fill me with anger. Yes, a Jewish child’s life if precious to me but how dare anyone suggest that another child’s life is less precious, less deserving of a future? What is most frustrating is that those who place lesser values on non-Jews are supposed stalwarts of a community that I can no longer rightfully call mine. Where is the commitment to open dialogue, the respect to hear out opposing ideas, where is the dictum that commands us to listen, to debate, to agonize with each other rather than hurl epithets of disloyalty?
People see suffering and unless it is Jewish suffering they are silent. How dare they? Many years ago, at the famous March on Washington, Rabbi Joachim Prinz declared that the crime of the century was silence, silence in the face of injustice. I say it now to my own community; Jewish silence in the face of injustice is intolerable because Jews are commanded to live by a moral code that calls such silence not only wrong but makes it a crime."
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11 comments
Feel free to reply to any comment by clicking the "Reply" button.Hamas is the problem.
Mooolah
Level 8
July 18, 2019
1
Chosanistan was committing their war crimes and apartheid long before Hamas entered the picture. Additionally, international law allows for an occupied people to resist with force.
Had it pointed out in PM that @of-the-mountain is still here, he merely blocked me from seeing his posts.
I restate my opinion that he is gutless. He comes to my thread to spout his views in a largely abusive manner, and I take the time to respond in a respectful manner, yet he chooses to block me.
His cowardice is not surprising.
[Update is that he has deactivated his account entirely for the moment]
Regardless, I consider it a sign of respect to share my views openly and honestly in this forum. Thoughtful and fact-based rebuttals can get me to concede points and reassess my own views. But I consider it esssential to stand up to bullies.
Make whatever assertions you want with as much passion as you want... but be willing to engage. Don't fling your poop and run off. There's enough of that in the world of irrationalists.
WilliamCharles
Level 8
June 30, 2019
2
It looks like @of-the-mountain cut and ran. That means any of our replies to him disappear as well when he deletes his own. This is the kind of cowardice we are dealing with.
Chosanistan actually has an army of paid trolls. Sad to say, I think this person was just a useful idiot.
WilliamCharles
Level 8
June 30, 2019
0
It is my experience this happens a lot here with Zio-bullies (he claimed to be a neutral party). As soon as their hateful and uninformed rhetoric gets exposed for what it is, they turn tail and run off.
I forgot my own rule to add my replies as a comment in the main thread specifically, because they'll purposely eliminate the responses calling them out. Gutless.
It's what I most admire about rationalism. The willingness to do battle, openly, in the arena of ideas. A good counterargument gets you to reassess your own views. Nonsense like this shows you that the facts are on your side.
He's even blocked his account from viewing (at least by me).
All bark, and no bite, eh @of-the-mountain ?
"The trick of declaring war against the armed resistance and then attacking the resisters’ unarmed kin as well as the surrounding population with the most gruesome products of Death-Science; this trick is not new. American Pioneers were pioneers in this too; they made it standard practice to declare war on indigenous warriors and then to murder and burn villages with only women and children in them. This is already modern war, what we know as war against civilian populations; it has also been called, more candidly, mass murder or genocide.
Maybe I shouldn’t be surprised that the perpetrators of a Pogrom portray themselves as the victims, in the present case as victims of the Holocaust.
Herman Melville noticed over a century ago, in his analysis of the metaphysics of Indian-hating, that those who made a full-time profession of hunting and murdering indigenous people of this continent always made themselves appear, even in their own eyes, as the victims of manhunts.
The use the Nazis made of the International Jewish Conspiracy is better known: during all the years of atrocities defying belief, the Nazis considered themselves the victimized.
It’s as if the experience of being a victim gave exemption from human solidarity, as if it gave special powers, as if it gave a license to kill."
Fredy Perlman from his essay, “Anti-Semitism and the Beirut Pogrom” – [libcom.org]
WilliamCharles
Level 8
June 30, 2019
0
Isreal is doing itself in by these actions. They have lost their moral compass. All these wrongs do not make a right. Plus, I wish they would get out of our political arena here.
think-beyond
Level 7
June 30, 2019
2
You are so out of touch with the reality within the Middle Rast!
You Should be ashamed to have said such a moronic statement!
Let us hope all your neighbors religious believes are not to murder you and your entire family just for living in your own home!
If you fail to comprehend that statement in regards to the Middle East and the Islamic belief system, you do not deserve to be a citizen here, you need to go and live in the 52 Sharia governed nations were they will certainly love your prejudice and hatred against the Jews!
You show the same lack of rational thought and decency as your typical hardcore Chosenite. Always the double standard.
At least no state entity is commisioning snipers to shoot her through the kneecaps with banned expanding bullets.
That would be a war crime.
[Apparently you reconsidered your words that I responded to and deleted @of-the-mountain ]
@of-the-mountain It was always my hope that in responding to Arab's actions, Isreal would hold fast to moral standards. I understand the threat of hatred that surrounds Israel and how difficult it would be to hold on the righteous actions. That is the challenge. Interferring in our country's politics disturbs me. But what disturbs me most is the hateful way you respond to me. You do not know me nor do you know the full spectrum of my thoughts. You could offer your corrections, why you disagree, etc, but to wish me ill and to spew your hate on me needs a good look. That's the problem. Take hate out of this awful situation and then maybe, over time, there could be a solution. Hate is the problem and hate is the challenge...you included. I do not know you. You do not know me. However, I return your hatred with wishes for your well-being.
Thank you for your thoughtful responses, both to the original post, and the rude reply given to you. It is no surpise that he ran off once challenged.
I value the interactions of all in here. Our agreement on issues is in no way required, but we can at least attempt to look at them from another's perspective. This person couldn't even manage that.
the old maxim still holds: he who has the gold rules..except the world reserve fiat currency has replaced gold.
so long as the wealthy jewish americans control the US govt then israel will continue to get away with atrocities against the palestinians. no end in sight.
@think-beyond, @WilliamCharles If you are lucky you can have of-the-mountain block you or did I block him - irrelevant I do not see his putrid diatribe.
@think-beyond however I must gently question your complaint of political interference in your country's governance.
Isn't any such complaint hypocritical given the bullying and widespread interference including overthrow of democratically elected governments in other countries around the world very hypocritical? (think Chile, think Panama, think Cuba, think Australia, think. . . the rest of the world. . .)
I do what I can to keep my own country from wreaking havoc in the affairs of others. How is this hypocritical?
@WilliamCharles It isn't unless you have been told a better way and decline to take it.
@FrayedBear I totally agree with you. I think, as I am incensed by Russia interfering in our election, how our CIA has done the same thing to other countries. It comes down to Right and Wrong everywhere and anywhere. In our case, we have Karma: Trump.
@think-beyond He's not all bad 
! Talking of which I'm just listening to Feodor Chaliapin who died twelve years before I was born and yet his name has long been known. This is the first time that I have sat and consciously listened! The Cd is currently playing several songs from "Prince Igor".
If Russia interfered I don't think that they got what they wanted!
@FrayedBear Well, we disagree on one thing: He, Trump, is all bad, verrry, verrry, bad! But then again, we do agree about Chaliapin and the music of Borodin's "Prince Igor."
You can not have open dialogue with those whose only objective is to wipe you and your family off the face of the earth!
Palestinians do not exist as a people, they are not a race or ethnic group, they are Arabs!
They are Arabs, rejected by the very countries which spawned them!
These Arabs are now on the fourth geraration as refugees, now they have been refugees for over seventy years!
They have no rights in the Arab countries that they reside and exist in as refugees!
The these Arab's great parents left the lands they live upon in 1947, at the bequest of their own leadership the Arab League who promised they would return in three to four days after they drove the Jews back into the sea!
Their present day so called leadership squanders all most every penny they receive as aid to buy arms and weapons to destroy and kill Jews, the majority of their leadership live in protected security both financially and culturally beyond those who they pretend to represent.
UNHCR is one the only protections and source of shelter, food, education, and medical services available to these displace Arabs for the last seventy years.
No Arab country has contributed or allowed these Fellow Arabs to assimilate within the surrounding Arab countries which they reside in!
There are NO Jewish refugees in Jordan, Syria, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, or any of the other 52 Sharia govern countries on this planet!
Israel does not have a refugee problem because most of those who escape too, immigrate too or seek political asylum are not considered or treated as refugees!
There are only a little over 18 million Jews worldwide!
There are over 1.75 Billion followers of Islam!
Tell me why the country of Israel with a population of 8.75 million is such a horrendous threat to over 680 Million Arab Islamist in the surrounding Arab Islamic countries?
of-the-mountain
Level 9
June 30, 2019
1
Lots of hasbara in your comment which I'll address later. But for now...
"Palestine is a small and very poor country, about the size of your state of Vermont. Its Arab population is only about 1,200,000. Already we have had forced on us, against our will, some 600,000 Zionist Jews. We are threatened with many hundreds of thousands more.
Our position is so simple and natural that we are amazed it should even be questioned. It is exactly the same position you in America take in regard to the unhappy European Jews. You are sorry for them, but you do not want them in your country.
We do not want them in ours, either. Not because they are Jews, but because they are foreigners. We would not want hundreds of thousands of foreigners in our country, be they Englishmen or Norwegians or Brazilians or whatever.
Think for a moment: In the last 25 years we have had one third of our entire population forced upon us. In America that would be the equivalent of 45,000,000 complete strangers admitted to your country, over your violent protest, since 1921. How would you have reacted to that?
Because of our perfectly natural dislike of being overwhelmed in our own homeland, we are called blind nationalists and heartless anti-Semites. This charge would be ludicrous were it not so dangerous.
No people on earth have been less "anti-Semitic" than the Arabs. The persecution of the Jews has been confined almost entirely to the Christian nations of the West. Jews, themselves, will admit that never since the Great Dispersion did Jews develop so freely and reach such importance as in Spain when it was an Arab possession. With very minor exceptions, Jews have lived for many centuries in the Middle East, in complete peace and friendliness with their Arab neighbours."
Again you are so wrong!
Palestine is not a country period it never has been ever!
Palestine was a British mandate so name after the end of the Ottoman Empire!
It is a geographical term, not a country!
It is not a Arab homeland of any kind!
The Jews predate any Arab inhabitants that call themselves Palestinians, which are in reality Arabs!
The word Palestinians was coin in 1967 by the PLO in order to get funding from the UN along with funds the PLO confiscated from UNHCR!
The so called Palestinian flag is a Jordanian flag without the star!
They has never been Palestinian monies, treaties, or borders to validate any factual claim of statehood!
Stop being a moronic pawn of the Islam,
There are no Jewish refugees in any Arab country!
8.75 million of different ethnic groups populate Israel!
They are surrounded by over 689 million Islamic Arabs whose only claim is too push all the peoples of Israel into the sea by any means possible!
The so called Arab Palestians have now been refugees for over 70 years in Arabs countries which grant them no legal or political rights were they have lived for over 70 years!
There are no refugees in Israel! They are assimilated into the society!
Over 9,000,000 Jews have been forced and displaced out of over 52 Sharia govern counties since 1920!
Approximately 4,500,000 have settled before and after Israel became a nation!
Again you speak of affairs and events you only think you have knownledge of!
The Arabs states have been in a state of constant war and terrorism against the Jews!
The Arab leaders use the Arab Palestinians as their proxy to destroy Israel!
You use such words as hasbara to call names just like a Fascist would!
I am not Jewish or religious!
I do not and will not condone any religious cult like Islam that calls for complete genocide of the Jewish people or any other groups of individuals!
The Arabs were in total commitment with the Nazi's to systematically displace and destroy the Jewish people's!
So you support the wholesale murdering of any one not following the cult of Islam!
When you post such complete BS lies and propaganda you are no better then those who you claim are righteous cold blooded killers and murdereds of the innocent!
"MURDER as COVER for
THEFT and OPPRESSION
is NOT self-defense
It's a war crime."
~ LanceThruster
You support an ethnic cleansing (aka "genocide" ). Own it.
You ignore history as you condone apartheid, murder, occupation, and oppression.
Her house was knocked down because [reasons].
I wonder how much you get paid for all this?
I absolutely refuse to watch another holocaust movie until the hypocrisy stops. What is happening to the Palestinians is pure genocide.
Isn't there somewhere in the bible that says Jesus will return when the Jews are back in Israel? That would explain where the christian sympathies lie. I hate religion......it's so divisive.
MsDemeanour
Level 8
June 30, 2019
2
The only genocide is the pure stupidly of so many who think that Arabs who hide behind a fictional race/ethnic group now known palestians!
These so call palestians are Arabs who were asked to leave in 1947 so their leaders the Arab league could drive the Jews into the Sea!
Seventy years later these Arabs are still refugees in the countries that they now have lived in for over seventy years!
These so called Arab refugees have no rights in the countries that they have resided in since their great parents were born there!
So if one is so morally stupid to use the word genocide, maybe they should actually understand and know the facts before being so ignorant and moronic when applying to those who are being oppressed!
Funny how the country of Israel, the size of Delaware with a mixed ethnic population of 8.75 million is such an horrendous threat to the 680 million Arab Islamists in the surrounding countries that do not have one Jewish refugee!
"I absolutely refuse to watch another holocaust movie until the hypocrisy stops."
Who cares?
I would love to see the horrors and injustices visited upon the Palestinians be portrayed in a similar manner as it is when it happens to Jews. If we can't recognize our shared humanity... we are truly lost.
@of-the-mountain I think you should go back and stay up there on that mountain, all by yourself, that would be much better.
@NancyDrew The thing about Hollywood movies is that they are so often owned by Jews. And where do their donations go?
But you're quite right, holocaust movies are boring as all hell. I would rather have my toe nails pulled out than watch another
When the Nazis came for the communists,
I remained silent;
I was not a communist.
When they locked up the social democrats,
I remained silent;
I was not a social democrat.
When they came for the trade unionists,
I did not speak out;
I was not a trade unionist.
When they came for the Jews,
I remained silent;
I wasn't a Jew.
When they came for me,
there was no one left to speak out.
I remained silent;
I was not a communist.
When they locked up the social democrats,
I remained silent;
I was not a social democrat.
When they came for the trade unionists,
I did not speak out;
I was not a trade unionist.
When they came for the Jews,
I remained silent;
I wasn't a Jew.
When they came for me,
there was no one left to speak out.
Israel is 80% Zionist, their secret society runs the US. The Zionist in general, is the most dangerous group on the planet.
Even after this message, I will claim this as a joke, because I like to keep my job.
What frustrate me is there is little I can do to help those children. Hell I don’t even know the full story of what’s going on. Only thing I know is that children should not be bomb.
Tyrantmike
Level 6
June 30, 2019
3
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