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We can't all be this flagrantly narcissistic, can we?

An excellent article by psychologist Kerry Kerr McAvoy, PhD. I have had the same experience meeting new men.

"Right after this guy asked if I’d been dating much, the conversation took a turn for the worst. He then proceeded to share what had gone wrong with all the previous women he’d met. Lumping me in without getting to know me, I heard how we, women, want too much from him, can’t accept him the way he is, and hide important details.

"Defensive anger radiated from him as he repeated the same message two to three times. I nodded my head and offered sympathetic comments. I tried to steer the conversation into safer topics, only to have him revisit his grievances once again. This went on for nearly two hours before I stood and politely said I needed to go home.

"I wish I could say my last date was an anomaly, but that experience has been the norm. Another suitor talked at me for two hours, except to take a bathroom break. He didn’t ask me one single question — not one.

Does Having Life Experiences Equate Being Self-Absorbed?

"What’s happened? Where did the art of conversation go? We can’t all be this flagrantly narcissistic, can we?

"Honestly? I’m discouraged. Where are a few good men who can show up emotionally? Who are genuinely interested in getting to know their partner?

"Women aren’t perfect. I know that all too well. I’ve read several recent articles about the unreasonable expectations women have of men. Both sexes need to take responsibility for getting their shit together.

"So what can we do to improve the first-time date experience?"

How to Improve the Art of Conversation

Read on:

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LiterateHiker 9 May 23
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6 comments

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1

I realize that most of us like to talk about ourselves - within reason. And that it often comes as a great relief to actually have someone interested in what you have to say - which sometimes opens a one-way valve in their brain !

"I wish I could say my last date was an anomaly, but that experience has been the norm. Another suitor talked at me for two hours, except to take a bathroom break. He didn’t ask me one single question — not one."

Definitely not the same guy, and we were on the phone - but similar experience. At one point, after about an hour and a half in, and him giving me every tiny detail of what he lived in and where, I mentioned something about my house, and he responded : " yeah I really haven't heard about your home !". I thought maybe he'd tired of talking about himself and things were about to equalize ...

He promptly changed the subject to talk about his daughter and Grandchildren . Also personal details of people I don't know that I'll likely never meet. Ugh.

After that, it was all about his military career .... Gotta go now !!
The main reason I insist on phone time before deciding to meet.

1

I retired after 31 years in a AUTO Factory. I can say I worked with many people with this problem.

2

Well Ms. Literate Hiker, I too have talked to a few men recently. IN FACT, that's about all I have talked to lately, except last 2 weeks customer, Joyce. Joyce is in her 70's. Widowed, sharp as a tack and quite a hoot at the lunch table. She fed us everyday!

Anyway, back to these men, that you and I have been talking to. You on dates, me....not at all !
Anyway, I digress.

Yeah, these guys are something. They certainly get my anxiety up. I'm thinking of my brother, my guitar friend Chris, the gutter guy Don.......Definitely unknowing in the art of conversation. No style, no empathy, very little listening. When I end up saying anything when I desire to be heard, it becomes WORK. Even if I am trying to just say good bye ( Go Away !). A lot of the time, I just don't bother speaking at all.

My brother simply feels a "need" to espouse on every little nick of a comment. Begins rambling, and I mean rambling on !! before the complete sentence has left my lips. Kills it before it can crawl. It is dead and rotting before he could possibly have any idea of the meaning in what I am saying. Yet he has now barraged me with 200 words whilst I still have only an incomplete sentence.

Chris, like members of my family, has to frame things politically. Which means the Fox News echo chamber (I've never seen Fox News , but I sure have heard it !) Absolutely no empathy from him. I usually start insulting religion to back him down.

Don...fuck that guy. I avoid him like the plague. I try to do business with his daughter Kim and his workers
1st time I saw him since last year, he was delivering some material to Joyce's job. He JUMPS out of the van, gets in my face and starts carrying on about "this shit, this scam this joke that's going on. " (c-19).
Good morning to you too asshole. Here's your check, I got work to do, Good Bye!!! I gotta go now! And I climbed back up the ladder. I knew his loud, lazy ass wasn't going to follow me up onto the roof.

Anyway, I am going to call Joyce back next week and see if she will arrange lunch with her, I and Lisa her neighbor....

That's all I got. Signing out

twill Level 7 May 23, 2020

@twill

Thank you for your well-written, wise, supportive and hilarious reply. Love how you wrote:

"My brother simply feels a "need" to espouse on every little nick of a comment. Begins rambling, and I mean rambling on !! before the complete sentence has left my lips. Kills it before it can crawl. It is dead and rotting before he could possibly have any idea of the meaning in what I am saying. Yet he has now barraged me with 200 words whilst I still have only an incomplete sentence."

You have my sympathy. Go Joyce!

1

I've no doubt that much of what you poont out is true and the man who expresses his anger like that is one to run from but conversation is a two way street. It's been my experience that with some women you feel like you have to carry the conversation because getting them to talk about anything they may be interested is like getting blood out of a stone. You ask open questions and get very brief answers. At the end of the date you feel like it was empty, and then they want to see you again. No thank you. Of course there is also the opposite end of the spectrum where you struggle to get a word in. So does the problem with conversation have to mean narcissistic or self absorbed? As you say,both people have to take responsibility for holding up their end and some people just don't know how, or can be afraid to. I think some people can be so afraid of relationships they look for any reason to avoid them.

1

Yes, there are some of us who are different. I’m sorry you’ve had to deal with so much of that

2

I wouldn't label the guy as narcissistic. People can become self-absorbed for many reasons. Have you ever met a person who has recently become handicapped? Or how about someone who has been viciously dumped from a relationship? Or a person, like me, who can't remember what a date is like. Narcissism isn't always the answer.

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