So ANYONE who disagrees with you have benefited from their own privilege and class ... well, I'm glad to see it's not just a skin thing with you.

@Normanbites ANYONE who disagrees with me... No. I condemn EVERYONE who denies the impact of 400 years of racism and segregation in America.

@Bobbyzen I don't think she is saying that, nor am I. I suspect you have your own dialogue going on in your head.

@Normanbites I watched. She does what the police do in defending their assaults on Black people: Roll out the rap sheet on George Floyd.

What she and her writer heroes all do is pretend that 400 years of systemic racism should have no bearing on today’s black community. As if 400 years of slavery, Jim Crow, up to and including modern-day discriminatory banking, schooling, housing, and policing tactics and policies should be ignored because there are Black people who have overcome the odds.

I have black children of color in my extended family who live in predominantly white, upscale neighborhoods. They have been pulled over by the police many times, but have never been given a ticket. Never had a broken taillight, brake lights, nothing. No probable cause for being pulled over. Except for one thing: their brown skin. The trauma they and their parents endure is palpable, never knowing if the next police stop would result in arrest, abuse, or death.

So spare us the black-woman-says-black-people-should-stop-martyring-criminals bullshit. They’re only “criminals” in a white society that protects its own advantages inherent in our white skin.

@Bobbyzen And again, I think you are inserting your own rhetoric into her dialog. She DOES NOT condone what the police did in the George Floyd case and is in full support of their prosecution. She DOES point out this guy was not a Saint and had a rap sheet, but also says NO ONE deserves to die that way.

I believe she also says that police corruption is a problem and NEEDS to be addressed. But she definitely says the idea it is white vs black is bullshit! I think she is courageous for saying so and I agree. Police corruption is a problem and it should be solved PERIOD, but it should be solved for all our sakes, not just for blacks.

While you may believe that George Floyd deserves to be held up as a saintly martyr despite his holding a gun to the belly of a pregnant black woman. She and I will disagree with you on that point. But I guess the "whiteness" of his victim in that case just serves to support your point?

@Normanbites He was arrested for holding a gun to a pregnant woman’s belly?

@Bobbyzen Previously, yes. Tried, convicted, served his time and was reportedly trying to make a "fresh start" ... while apparently high on meth. .... but that does not automagically make him a "wonderful human being".

But then, he didn't deserve to suffocate under a callous cop's knee either.

@Normanbites He was arrested on suspicion of passing a fake $20 bill. What does his character have to do with this? Who gives a shit if he had no rap sheet or a long one? His friends and family are allowed to speak of him as a loving man. Neither you nor the woman in the video knew him. When you debase his character, you implicitly justify the brutality at the hands of Minneapolis police.

@Bobbyzen He debased his own character by robbing a pregnant black woman at gunpoint. Neither Candice nor I had anything to do with that.

She and I have already stated that NO ONE deserves to die like that, regardless the background, but that does not make him a saint.

There is no way to justify Mr. Floyd's prior behavior, the fact he was high on Meth NOR the cop's callous treatment of Mr Floyd.

YOU are the only one trying to say otherwise in this conversation. Get over yourself already.

@Normanbites Maybe we can agree in this one thing: Police treat black and brown people far worse than they treat white people, which is the crux of the protests we’re seeing in America. Dylan Roof murdered 9 black parishioners in a church. The police arrested him. They didn’t drag him to the ground, knee him in the neck, ignore his cries that he can’t breathe. George Floyd had his hands cuffed behind his back for allegedly passing a fake $20 bill. He hadn’t just gunned down 9 people in a church. Why were Roof and Floyd treated so differently? Tell me.

@Bobbyzen I have already agreed that police corruption is a problem and needs to be addressed (solved) PERIOD.

I see no value in making sure these injustices are "fairly" distributed amongst all skin colors before the root problem is addressed. Why not just address the issue of police corruption regardless of the skin colors involved? Wouldn't that ALSO solve the inequitable distribution problem??

As for why Roof and Floyd were treated differently, perhaps it was because Roof had the good fortune to be arrested by cops who were not corrupt, callous human beings. Why do you not think such randomness was in play? Do you think cops have meetings before hand and decide "We will be corrupt in this case and not in another because of someone's skin color."? Really??

@Normanbites

I don't understand why you and Candice insist on bringing up his past. It has nothing to do with what happened to him. Sure he wasn't a saint and people aren't saying he was. He has become a martyr because he was murdered by aggressive overly militarized police while not presenting anything resembling threatening behavior to them.

He debased his own character, so what. There is no reason to mention it, it is not relevant. Talking about his past is an obvious attempt to discredit him, belittle him, and take the pressure off of the officers who are the actual villains here.

Police corruption is a problem that needs to be addressed and systemic racism within law enforcement and the justice system is also a problem that needs to be addressed. I'm glad that you and she are able to see that there are issues with policing in this country and that Mr. Floyd didn't deserve what happened to him but, as Bobbyzen said, it's not okay to try and rationalize the idea that all the terrible things that have happened to African Americans in our history plays no part in our current situation.

@Normanbites I’m not calling for equitable distribution, for Roof to be murdered because Floyd was. I’m calling for dismantling all the racist systems. I can post statistics demonstrating the disproportionate treatment of black and brown people in every corner of society. But you and Candice won’t hear it. I’m done.

@RoboGraham For the most part, I have little problems with this most recent post of yours.

Other than .... to paint Mr Floyd as a Saintly Martyr when he has such a horrific record as an awful human being is a bit galling.

AND again, I see no value in "fairly" distributing how corruption is visited on people before solving the corruption issue.

@Bobbyzen You are right. Until you can demonstrate some value in first equally distributing injustices before solving them, I and a lot of other people will be pretty deaf.

If you really want to save more Black lives, why not address the leading cause of violent deaths among Blacks? Which is: Black on Black violence. I'm not making this up. It's all there in the statistics you love so much. Check it out!

@Normanbites oh FFS Norman. I know those statistics. You’re in good company with Candice:Blame Black people for responding to being on the wrong side of oppression for 400 years. Your name suits you. Just bite me.

@Normanbites

Here's what I said- " Sure he wasn't a saint and people aren't saying he was. "

Where are you getting this idea that I'm painting as a saint?

A person doesn't necessarily have to have a squeaky clean record to be martyred. Case in point, George Floyd. He is undoubtedly a martyr. People are chanting his name, demanding justice for him, painting his image all over the place, and using his death as a rallying cry for reform.That's all it takes to be a martyr. If he has managed to inspire a movement, which he has, he is a martyr, whether you like it or not.

I don't see value in fairly distributing corruption visited on people either. I do see value in identifying where the corruption is most egregious and beginning the reforms from that starting point.

@RoboGraham I would be willing to tear out corruption where ever I can find a loose corner to pull on.

Beyond that, it sounds like we are becoming in raging agreement.

@Bobbyzen Oh sure! Faced with facts you don't like, just throw a tantrum and condemn the messenger. ... that has solved a lot of issues in the past for you has it??

@Normanbites

What a despicable response that was.

The issue being discussed is police racism and police brutality and you pivot to black on black crime.

There is a major difference. Police officers are paid, trained, sanctioned professions who are supposed to protect, not murder. To compare black criminals killing other black people to officers of the law killing black people is like comparing apples to cigarettes.

And by the way, there is plenty of white on white crime as well.

Perhaps you should try to consider why crime rates are high in the black community. But that would require you to delve into the history of oppression and segregation which you Candice seem so adamant about ignoring.

@RoboGraham I am not in charge of the statistics nor the crimes people inflict on each other. The facts are the facts. If you don't like them, that is not my fault.

@Normanbites

You are in charge of looking at the entire picture, applying some critical thinking, and drawing reasonable conclusions. That is something you and all the rest of us are capable of.

@RoboGraham I would like to see you demonstrate that ability.

You’re missing out on listening to a favorite Conservative voice. No loss unless you like elevating your blood pressure.

"educated idiot" where have I heard that phrase before .... Oh yeah! Preachers pushing their BS.

@Normanbites

Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. That's a common phrase often said by religious folks and preachers. Does that make it automatically negative? Of course not, it's the golden rule. A saying isn't instantly wrong just because religious people say it.

And yes, it is possible to be an educated idiot. She clearly has had much education. She speaks very well and she has mastered her ideology. She lacks understanding of history, sociology, and she is very biased. She pointed out that Philando Castile was a true victim, implying that George Floyd is a fake victim. How in the world can you look at what happened to him and not see that Floyd was a victim?

@RoboGraham Like I said initially, I don't agree with everything she says. IMHO, Floyd was a (true) victim of a horrific crime. But she does make a point that this fact does not make him a wonderful human being.

And, she often makes the same point that this guy does:
[facebook.com]

@Normanbites

You disagree about her main point and yet you still felt the need to post the video and argue in her favor.

That doesn't really add up.

@RoboGraham Even Candice said the actions of the police were corrupt and no one should die that way. If it doesn't add up, perhaps you weren't really paying attention.

@Normanbites

The purpose of her video is to discredit him, undermine the movement created around his death, and deny the fact that he was a victim.

She has done the absolute minimum of human decency. She saw a man murder another man and she admits it's wrong. Other than that, her assessment is severely lacking of substance.

@RoboGraham I didn't get that message from her video at all. I think that you did says more about you than it does about her.