A capitalist system is fragile. When a crisis comes along requiring much of the economy be shut down temporarily, things begin to unravel. Laborers and small business owners can't pay their bills so rents and mortgages don't get paid resulting in mass eviction and an enormous spike in homelessness as we are about to see. Desperate people demand to go back to work before the crisis is over because they have no other way to make ends meet so the crisis gets worse, much worse than it would have been if the shut down had been in place long enough to get it under control fully. There are no mechanisms built into the system to protect people when the shit hits the fan other than unemployment which has proven to be inadequate for very large numbers of people.

There are some capitalist countries which have used socialistic policies to mitigate the shortcomings of capitalism during a crisis. They provide things like universal healthcare, UBI, eviction moratoriums, and the requirement that companies that have received government assistance use the money they received to pay their workers to stay home. By implementing these policies, those countries have done a good job of containing the virus and protecting their people from economic hardship.

The person who made this meme thought it was very clever because it's the quarantining and economic shutdown which caused all the problems. So it's implying that we did this to ourselves. Thing is, it was necessary to respond with those measures and by doing what was needed to contain the virus, we put strain on our system which our system was not designed to handle. The result was the unraveling of our capitalist system because capitalism is fragile and does not do a good job of adjusting to a crisis.

@RoboGraham that’s the most retarded thing I’ve read in a long damn time. You want a full nanny state reliant on a trustworthy government.
You should travel overseas a bit more.

@CourtJester

Such a typical right winger response. Heavy on name calling and bravado, totally absent of substance.

You're damn right the government should act to protect it's populace and it's economy during a global crisis. That's why socialist countries and capitalist countries with socialist tendencies are handling this thing so much better than we are.

I have traveled abroad. Have you?

@RoboGraham Well, that really was the most logical response I could really come up with after a few rum and Coke’s last night. I have to stick with it though.

#1. That goes 100% against what this country’s founding fathers intended and what has made us a world power. I was born in Australia but got to learn a great deal to earn my citizenship. The founding fathers wanted a nation hell bent on personal responsibility and personal accountability. I don’t think it is too far of a stretch to think that Thomas Jefferson would flip his wig to know that we offer welfare and food stamps.

#2. To want a socialist government (or even a socialist ‘like’ government), you have to be willing to have the snot taxed out of your paycheck (assuming you have one), you have to believe that the government knows what’s best for you AND society, and you have to be willing to give up the freedoms required for the government to give you what they believe is best for you in the times of a crisis.

I’ve been able to visit China, Chile, Japan, Greenland, Italy, Switzerland, and spent almost a year in school in Amsterdam. China and Chile are shit holes, but they are all taxed to hell and back. So many people ride bikes and take trains in Amsterdam, not because they want to, but because they can’t afford cars. Their pay check is taxed at a level of ignorance (probably why their government took their guns away), owning a home comes with more high taxes so they rent, cars are taxed on the size of vehicles, the annual registrations are over $1,000 for the smallest vehicle, and gas (if I remember correctly) was 1.60 euro a liter. No clue what it is now. But doing the math at 1.60, it would put it at $7. a gallon. All of that so that they can tell you what is best and be able to afford to give it to you???

As for this “crisis”.... Switzerland seems to have nailed it best. They told everyone the risks, made some recommendations, and said “you do you. Have a good day”. They’re through it with a damn low number of deaths compared to others. All though the US has had some motorcyclists hit by semis with “Covid” listed as the cause of death. So there’s that.

My statement stands. That is we tall did.

@CourtJester

Well, I can certainly understand and identify with the posting of a poor quality comment after doing some drinking. I've been there. In fact, I've been drinking quite a bit tonight, so I don't expect this to be my best response.

I've got a great deal of respect and reverence for the founders and their vision for the country.They have given us some priceless rights and freedoms that have served our people well and will continue to do so. I also highly value the concept of personal responsibility. I don't, however, see personal responsibility to be mutually exclusive to a collectivist mind set. People can be responsible for themselves while also acting in the best interests of their community. For instance, during a global pandemic, people ought to exercise personal responsibility to keep themselves safe and they should take into consideration the vulnerable high risk people around them as well. To do this, they need to stay away from crowds as much as possible and for a very large number of us, this means not going to work. It is personally responsible to not go in to work during a pandemic if your work exposes you to large numbers of people because that can cause you to expose the virus to your vulnerable friends, family and neighbors. But if you don't work, how the hell can you live? And that's where the collectivist aspect comes in. I'm sure you see it as getting something for nothing and therefore it's wrong but when there is such danger, what else can a man do? The responsible thing is to stay home but you still have to make ends meet and that's where it's sensible for society to pool it's resources to keep people afloat during these difficult times. In these circumstances, individuals left on their own are going to end up in crisis and the virus will flourish because desperate people will go back to work in order to pay the bills. That's the opposite of what we want in order to control the virus so it's a good idea to pay non-essential workers to stay home. I don't really care all that much if Jefferson were to disapprove because his mindset is very old fashion and I happen to think that Jefferson was a smart enough guy that if he had been able to live until now, his values and convictions would have evolved with the times and he would probably be able to comprehend the need for closing down large chunks of the economy and he would see that people need some welfare to get them by on in the mean time.

So yes, socialism is expensive and it requires high tax rates to fund. I think most people who have experienced socialism, except for the very wealthy, will agree that the benefits far outweigh the costs. And the tax burden falls heaviest on the high earners so for the regular people, who are the vast majority, it's well worth it. That investment in society, for the common good of all, creates a well educated, healthy, productive, populace which is willing to be cooperative and do what is necessary during a crisis. And best of all, it narrows the wealth inequality gap and creates a more equal and fair society. I don't think freedoms necessarily have to be sacrificed for the government to provide for it's people during a crisis. Socialism isn't always autocratic as the soviet union was, in fact, it was never meant to be.

My understanding of Chile is that is very much a capitalist nation. I know for sure that it was an extreme free market economy in the 70s when Pinochet took over with American backing. It was brutal and I'm not surprised that it's a shit hole. Have things changed? Is it now highly taxed?

I've visited Amsterdam as well but only briefly. I did see a great deal of bike riding there. It seemed like a good thing to me. In fact, everywhere I went in Europe, there was a great deal of travel by bike and the public transportation was excellent. I mean, I had heard that it was good but I was still surprised at how efficient it was. I'll take your word on it that the Dutch don't want to be biking and they do it because driving is so expensive. I've always heard the opposite but sure. I still think that's a good thing because too many cars causes too much traffic and too much air pollution. I think it's sensible for a government to engineer society to use fewer private vehicles and more public transport. I wish we did that more in the states. I'm near DC, so I take the metro as much as I can but I don't go into the city all that often so I'm still stuck with my car and all the maintenance and gas and bull shit that I have to put in it.

It seems that one area where we are in agreement is the 2nd amendment. I'm a gun owner, always have been. I've been shooting since I was a little kid and I think it's of the utmost importance that the citizenry keep itself armed to keep the government on it's toes.

I'm not sure where you got this idea that Switzerland had a very hands off approach to COVID. They clamped down pretty tightly, closed schools and banned gatherings of more than 5 people. After putting in place those restrictions, case numbers fell. [medicalxpress.com]

I've heard about this idea that hospitals are blaming COVID for deaths that had nothing to do with the virus but I still haven't seen any proof of it.

One more thing, as a former Australian, I'd like to ask you about your opinion on healthcare policy. I've spoken to quite a few Australians and they have all told me that the universal socialized healthcare system in Australia is great. It covers everyone for everything and doesn't have the problem of long wait times like in Canada. Was that your experience? Do you prefer that system to what you have now in Alabama?