Hi,

That survey was put out to receive criticisms from respondents
before a new, finalized version was put out this month.

@Ian_Newton that does not explain the purpose or raison d'etre of your survey.

@FrayedBear The finalized one or the one posted above?

@Ian_Newton im not interested in your WIPs just your intent. Where will you publish & what are your motives?

@FrayedBear I have not received any known news site's permission to publish on it.
My motivation to is to know the reality about the matter of study.
You don't have to assume the worst with someone.

@Ian_Newton Questions to clarify do not assume. Failure to properly respond do result in assumptions being made if your questions do not lead to obvious conclusions.

@FrayedBear What question of yours, did you not receive an answer to
regarding the survey-project?

While I am going to insist people choose between
"Atheist" and "Agnostic" I saw the point about Q9.

In the most updated version it's been revised to read:

Did you openly identify as an Agnostic or Atheist? (Check all that apply.)
a.) Yes, between ages 6 and 12
b.) Yes, between ages 13 and 18
c.) Yes, after I turned 18
d.) No

@Ian_Newton How much does that do to determine whether the atheism predated the DAD stuff?

@JeffMurray They could indicate that they were raised atheist or agnostic,
and then they could have openly identified as it between 13 and 18.

If the D.A.D issues occurred afterwards and they identify as
being an atheist or agnostic at the end, there can't be said to be an effect
except maybe the maintenance of a lack of belief.

I hope to be able to compare those raised atheist or agnostic
who did and did not have negative D.A.D experiences to reveal if one,
two or any are having some correlation.

@Ian_Newton But if the theistic and DAD responses fall in the same block, how will you know which came first to know if drawn conclusions/correlations mean anything?
Also curious why you aren't interested if the mother is/was religious?

@JeffMurray It's true: If the D.A.D experience falls into the same age category
we can't say if it lead to atheism or agnosticism.
(Although we can still see if they were more likely to be atheist or agnostic
at the time they filled out the survey compared to others who also had D.A.D
experiences.) Maybe more people become Catholic in Ireland after D.A.D exerienc(es).

I've decided to limit the number of question to encourage higher
samples; I'm not looking for a margin of error above 6%;
aiming for bare minimum 250-500 per country.

I'm focusing on the because of the theory
about negative relationship with one's creating a proclivity
towards atheism is more common.
And within the english-speaking countries fatherhood and God
have been related more than motherhood; which
may be more closely related with "mother earth."

So while it would be interesting to know
what the mother's influence would be,
with respondents limited willingness to give time
focusing on the father seemed to make sense.

@Ian_Newton I understand the time issue, but it seems like sacrificing valuable data like this would mostly invalidate any conclusions one could draw. If readers could easily poke holes in those conclusions and disregard entirely, wouldn't that be the waste of time? If you read a study that collected vague enough data to draw a conclusion that prayers cure cancer, wouldn't your thoughts be about how the study was flawed instead of praying for people you know that have cancer?

"Maybe more people become Catholic in Ireland after D.A.D exerienc(es)."
But you won't really know that because of the way the questions are asked. I don't recall the exact questions, but does the survey ask about religiosity prior to DAD events?
But this is also why I would be interested in the religious affiliation of both parents. A vast majority of people are of the religion or non-religion of one or both of their parents. An religious or atheistic mother, regardless of a father's involvement or DAD issue, may influence a child to leave or join a religion. If for instance a high percentage of children that have at least one atheistic parent become atheist themselves, wouldn't you want to try to eliminate that from the equation? What if you happen to survey a higher than normal percentage of atheists, many of whom have atheist parents who raised them without religion, say by posting the link to the survey on an atheist website?

Not trying to argue, just trying to help. If I start to annoy you, just ignore me.

@JeffMurray While t's true that collecting data on one's mother can be helpful for
greater understanding, we don't even know whether or not the respondent has a mother
or who raised them. I'm not confident going beyond 12 questions is wise given
the planned sample count of 500+ for multiple countries.

The reality is, this is a fairly general survey and there can always be more.
For example another limitation is I'm not asking about Autism,
which along with being male and University educated increases the likelihood of
atheism.

But I disagree that the results wouldn't tell us anything,
for example in the case where those who identified as
atheists in America, Canada and Australia had a 50% rate of their parents
divorcing (compared to 25% for Theists). That's evidence that the divorce
had some effect.

If a strong correlation exists across most or all countries,
both genders and all age groups it's more than reasonable
to conclude that divorce increases a proclivity towards atheism.

Now fine, maybe that had been effected by the mother
however if the correlation is pan-national, and pan-generational
even with the effect of the mother unaccounted for, it would
clear in the case of physical abandonment or death,
that it had its effect.

@JeffMurray
[2/2]

The revised version asks:
Throughout your childhood did your father do any of
the following with you a few times or more?
(Check all that apply)
A.) Pray with you
B.) Practice meditation with you
C.) Go to a place of worship with you
D.) Say grace before meals
E.) No

So the display of religious commitment
of the father to his or daughter is taken into account.

Although in its current form it doesn't ask specifically
for the parents affiliation, it does ask what they were
raised to believe. So that's taken into account.

So, the survey has controls for atheism three different times in the survey:
1.) Some people would have been raised atheist, that's accounted for
2.) Some people became atheists as child or teenagers, that's accounted for
3.) Some people identify as atheists at the time they take the survey, that's accounted for

With these controls in place I can separate the theists from Atheists/Agnostics
in multiple ways. So I'll know if there's 40%, 60%, ect. of atheists/agnostics or theists.
So even if the proportions are off, so to type, they can and should
always be segregated into different groups to see what correlations exists, or don't.

But the mother-issue is clearly a limitation to note, and good for future studies.

@JeffMurray The Survey will include an equal number of questions
about one's . Thank you for rising your concern.

Hi AmyTheBruce,

Thank you for taking the time to comment.

I am planning to look into how negative D.A.D experiences (Divorce, Abandonment and/or Death)
of a father effect one's likelihood of being an agnostic/atheist. But there's a lot a more
which could be potentially looked into using the same data.

For example: Maybe people are more likely to become Muslim in America after being abandonment
by their father if they were raised Protestant. And this could be because in Protestant theologian God is understood as Father, while that concept is forbidden in Islam.

I think that the question makes sense to include in a longer survey,
for my purposes in order to get a desirable sample of 0 within about three months
I've decided to limit the questions to .

I really don't need to find anything that proves the theory.
But it isn't an completely uncommon idea by theists and a Doctor of Psychology,
Paul Vic did write a book on it.

If it checks out, it checks out.
After all, the truth of correlation isn't something to fear is it?

@Ian_Newton As long as you remember that correlation does not imply causation!

@Ian_Newton Nothing to fear, I just think it will come out the reverse.

@TheoryNumber3 I'm here to collect data, produce evidence of any correlations I find
and distribute my findings to the intrigued public.

May come to my own conclusions, but so may many based on the data.

@barjoe Whatever the correlation, negative, positive or non-existent I'm off to find it.

@Ian_Newton is your next survey going to be how many became atheists because they were raped by Catholic priests? I’m sure you would get some good response from the formerly Catholics!

@Ian_Newton Paul Vic is an apologist for the Catholic Church and just wants to explain the exodus from the church by claiming there is something wrong with disbelievers, not something wrong with the religion of child rapers.

@Killtheskyfairy The research of Paul Vic's claims are being tested with this survey-project.
Whatever his motives, his hypothesis can be somewhat tested over time.

@Ian_Newton so you admit you are part of the catholic smear campaign?

@Ian_Newton What book is that? I haven't found anything online about Dr Paul Vic. Anywhere. Provide a link to him and his writings please. Thank you.

@Killtheskyfairy No, I'm not an active member with any Catholic parish.
Nor am I working in collaboration with one.

@barjoe [amazon.ca]

@Ian_Newton No wonder I couldn't find anything about him. Paul Vitz! I was looking for Paul Vic a non-existent person.

@Ian_Newton I contend rejection of God is a positive thing. Religion does more harm than good. Most children of atheist families are well adjusted. Vitz use of the term fatherless is very hateful in my estimation. Typical of the religious community.

There is the assumption that negative D.A.D experiences
(divorce, abandonment and death of a ) are in fact negative.

However, should a somehow perceive these events to be
positive, the correlation can still be found.

The issue is not the perception but whether or not the event
has any reliable correlation between it and atheism.

The reality is that most Psychologists don't regard divorce, abandonment or death
to be good in the life of someone under .

@Ian_Newton but if so why put the arbitrary line of wheter it was before 18?

@MakeItGood It's how we measure adulthood in my country of Canada
and divorce is considered to have a greater effect on children than adults.

@Ian_Newton Perhaps that is because of ridiculous religious founded notions like "child and wife ownership" rather than the right of the child to be actively & equally parented by a male & a female parent before notions of village (kibbutz), same sex & state parenting be allowed or even implemented.
We have all sen or read of the child soldies churned out as a result of state parenting.

It could well be that there are several factors that lead someone to go from theist
to atheist; or from agnostic to stay agnostic.

Possible friends or romantic relationships with agnostics and atheists for example could
lead someone to disconnect or remain disconnected to a religious belief structure.

But I don't think a stretch to say people are less likely to
complete a survey if it's more than ten questions long.

I'm looking into the possible association with beliefs regarding God
and divorce, abandonment or death of a among minors.

If, for example there's a .8 correlation between divorce, abandonment and/or death of a before the age of , it's a pretty clear sign that there's a link.

It could well be that divorce has little or correlation, or that someone raised Protestant
is more likely to become a Muslim if their passes away.

So, whether the finding are regarded as obvious or not, according to the theory or not,
or utterly unexpected they'll at the very least provide something for people point to.

Thank you for your interest.
I'll be sure to and add you to my contact list.