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2 Different America's

Do you think America is so devided we should consider breaking into 2 different halves like some other countries historically have. Are we comprised of 2 entirely different sets of people? Religeous, Conservative, Xenophoibic, Science denying, etc. vs Non-religeous, Liberal, Global, Science accepting?

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rogeralyn 7 Apr 15

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3

WATCH! Eventually Trump will be exposed as the fool he is. Eventually Climate Change will be so evident to all that the deniers will wonder what other lies have they been told.
In addition I have always hoped that archeologists will make a discovery that will provide irrefutable evidence that the Bible is a fraud.

Right there with you on this one.

3

Why not kick the idea around?
Throw it at the wall and see what sticks?
Run it up the flagpole?
[getyarn.io]

2

I lived in Northern California for 40 years. If the Northerners had their way, there would be a South and a North California--it ain't never gonna happen.

There might be. The Los Angeles basin has never been a human habitat without pumping expensive water from hundreds of miles. The drought issue can no longer be avoided and I question the cost of greening the desert for such inhospitable land.

@hemingwaykitten It was always an issue of water--and the issue is always worse when there is a drought.

2

How would that happen? The devision is not clear like state boarders.

1

Impossible to break into two countries. The lines are not broken along some physical border. Even saying it is purely rural vs urban is misleading. We try this, we dissolve into civil war across the continent. Likely a civil war utilizing guerilla tactics. even if it didn't dissolve into war right away, the liberal outside DFW would have to relocate while the conservative between sacramento and the bay would need to do the same. There are enough people living as an outlier of their region that soon one side would argue one side needs all the land. Hence, inevitable civil war. If we had a possibility of a civil divorce, this would have been discussed long before this.

1

United we Stand, Divided We Fall. Let's face it, we are like a seriously dysfunctional family who kicks each others asses at Thanksgiving yet will always be there for one another when bad shit happens. We are americans and we are assholes!

1

It could be done.

Non-contiguous entities would be the result.

Coalitions of like-minded city states and their environs vs the backwater rural areas.

Think of former East/West Berlin, Monaco, the Ancient Greek city states and Alaska, Hawaii, Guam and PR.

The notion that we need contiguous borders is both false and antiquated.

Mega City One and the Free City of Denver are well past their time to shine.

1

The liberals are just as xenophobic as the conservatives. just look at all of the russia stuff. and if we are gonna break into more than one we need 3 countries atleast. the two u said plus one for the majority of the country who don't vote for either team of criminals and understand they are both the same and just play theater for the sheeple that still fall for it all.

jorj Level 8 Apr 16, 2018
1

We need balance. Diversity.

1

Your country might be better served by trying to find the reasons for those differences and reduce them. Conservatives are as neccessary in liberal democracies (Cf Hungary for illiberal democracy) as progressives. To eliminate either is to destroy the system.

1

I don't think it can or should be done. But it would be interesting if we could have a crystal ball and see how the conservatives and liberals would fare individually. Especially the conservatives LOL.

1

No way could the whole country be divided. However, dividing a state is not without precedent. During the Civil War, Virginia split into two parts. If the voters in California want to split it into two states, why not?

Another interesting concept is City-States. South of Chicago, the rest of Illinois is much more similar to the neighboring states of Iowa and Indiana than it is to Chicago. Many non-Chicagoans would be supportive of Chicago becoming its own self-governing city-state.

1

Not feasible as it isn't a north / south divide like the civil war or something ... liberals exist in urban areas throughout the US, conservatives tend to be rural throughout. You can't even carve out states traditionally considered liberal, like California, as if they were monoliths. There are tons of conservatives there as well.

Anyway, as others have pointed out, diversity is strength, and even if it weren't there's plenty of commonality to focus on.

I grew up in a conservative household and I can tell you that modern conservatism is very different from what I grew up with. It used to just be about changing slowly and cautiously and not for the sake of change; now it's about not changing at all, ever, and even regressing to some imagined Good Old Days that never really existed to begin with.

I'm liberal now myself but that has changed too. It used to be about standing up for the little guy, now it's shot through with elitism and plutocrats.

The way wealth is concentrating at the top and the middle class vanishing, I think liberals and conservative peons will have to band together to tar and feather the wealthy pretty soon ...

1

How would that even be possible? Red states, Blue states? Since these states are not geographically connected, that wouldn't work. This is not the first time the country has been divided. If you curb the things that lobbiests can do and get big money out of politics, it would change things dramatically in a positive way.

1

I think its vital that we focus on commonalities & the goals we want to achieve. Everyone wants to see high paying jobs, affordable healthcare & the like. What the sticking point is...how to achieve those things. We might do well to decide on common goals & work our way backwards on how to achieve them. Once we set a groundwork of achievement & established some trust, then we can tackle stickier issues.

Good point, but what kind of commonality do I have with the White Supremacists?

@ClaireMilner to be perfectly honest, white supremacist, nazis & kkk members don't want to find common ground & only want to interact with people who are either goose stepping to the same tune or who want a screaming match. Actual discussion is not their goal. Regardless of which side they are on "fringe elements" are rarely up for give & take conversation.

I can think a person who voted for President Dunning-Kruger Effect is an ignorant asshole & be right but it doesn't answer the questions of why vote for him, what led to casting that vote, what research was done, etc. Calling them an ignorant asshole serves no purpose either other than to make dialogue damn near impossible.

Without knowing the whys, etc, we aren't going to get far at all.

@ClaireMilner to be perfectly honest, white supremacist, nazis & kkk members don't want to find common ground & only want to interact with people who are either goose stepping to the same tune or who want a screaming match. Actual discussion is not their goal. Regardless of which side they are on "fringe elements" are rarely up for give & take conversation.

I can think a person who voted for President Dunning-Kruger Effect is an ignorant asshole & be right but it doesn't answer the questions of why vote for him, what led to casting that vote, what research was done, etc. Calling them an ignorant asshole serves no purpose either other than to make dialogue damn near impossible.

Without knowing the whys, etc, we aren't going to get far at all.

0

Diversity in its many forms -- including diversity of ideas and beliefs -- strengthen organizations and countries. I think we're a lot worse off now than when there actually were liberal Republicans and conservative Democrats. Besides, it can't be done either legally or practically (except for the obvious states, many states are such a mixture that deciding would be a problem)

0

The sticky wicket here isn't that it can't be done. Rather, it is what would happen after it is done. There would be massive emigration to the blue states, as red states receive most of the federal benefits from SNAP, WIC, & SSI. The red states are hurting over crappy jobs brought on by supporting the conservative-corporate complex over their people, which in truth, is what most of them voted for. It is possible for both red and blue countries to exist on the same continent. Just be prepared for a lot of relocations and a huge quality of life divide.

While the Deep South and Midwest states could be a contiguous red nation, there would have to be a two part blue nation with New England and Mid Atlantic states being East Blue and the West Coast similarly being West Blue. California and Virginia would have to be split for sure.

0
Well, dear crazy people, I come from the land that was broken into two countries . Actually, first it was broken into four countries ( I was in the British Occupied Zone.  We had Canadians come and inspect us and bring us chewing gum and powdered milk.  We did not know what to do with either one of those things. 
In 1961, the Iron Curtain became a wall and a no man's zone with bombs and watch towers and soldiers with guns shooting people who wanted to leave.  Nobody tried to get in, so that was good. Shit became really serious.   
When the wall came down in 1989, and Germany became reunited, you had totally different expectation and unity had to be legislated.  They are still struggling to this day with their Ossies ( the Germans from behind the Iron Curtain)   unification was neither as wonderful nor as easy as people expected. Lessons learned:  Do not split up a country that belongs together.  It is The United States of America, emphasis on United States. Grow up a bit.  Put more resources into training on how to overcome racism and how to practice tolerance and fairness.  You can do it, America. just get religion out of your public life.

This fight has been continuously fought since before we became a nation at all. The Puritans landed and wanted a Christian nation even then.

The Founders fought it with the 1st Amendment, barring the establishment of one national religion, and here we remain, more angry and polarized than at any point in our history. You can't say "just get religion out of your public life," as if you are saying "pass the potatoes."

Religion is a fundamental difference among us, and with the election of Trump the red states effectively said, "The United States (read: whites) are favored by God and therefore have a covenant to rule the Earth." That cannot stand, yet it cannot be eliminated without either another Civil War, or divorce.

Methinks you would have to witness the unrelenting backwards religious bias outside large cities to understand fully. In Western North Carolina alone, we have over 100 flavors of Baptist churches. Disagree with your church? Move down the road and start a new one. Not to mention the religious breed like rabbits.

@hemingwaykitten From where I am looking, race is the obvious divide, then the inequality in the distribution of resources. The second one can be taken care of by a revolution. Not sure how to take care of racism. Unlike Americans, I am not afraid of the consequences of a revolution or an unsuccessful war. And with this administration, an unsuccessful war may not be far away. And all the baptist churches will do not good.

@Spinliesel Plenty of Americans are not afraid of revolution, but our political will has been taken away by those in pay for play politics. I have been waiting since 2008 for the anger to spark a revolution. However, far too many Americans belief the false narrative that if you can't make it here, it's your fault.

This has led to 30% growth in productivity over the past decade, but all that wealth has been transferred upward to the 1%, those who hold stocks. Most Americans are working harder than ever just to keep a roof over their head. Until the Citizen's United decision is overturned and we have a President willing to hold the banking industry to account, things will remain static.

We are now in a situation where inequality is worse here than in France during their revolution.

@hemingwaykitten And you must have reralized that growth, the one goal of capitalism , cannot be sustained. We are doomed if we do not put the brakes on . Natural resources are finite and WW 3 is inevitable. Interesting times we live in.

0

Nope, the divisions are just there to help the very rich get away with whatever they like.

Actual real people can have disputes due to the inconsistent meaning of everything they say, the well messed up language. Such things as claiming Hillary was on the moderate right of the Democrat Party can easily be proven untrue, she's so far off to the right that even Sarah Palin can't see her...

But tons of lies and confusing terminology prevent us for a time from accepting that we all want the same thing, and the rich also all want the same thing.

Just to make things more confusing in the 2016 election there was an ambitious greedy multimillionaire playing for the very rich, and a renegade billionaire, who appears to be totally genuine in playing for the working person. That seems kind of confusing.

0

Unless the divisiveness becomes geogrp[hically oriented, it doed nto make sense to divide the country. We are too mixed in viewpoints and geography.

I remember in near the end fo ht emovie "Gandhi" how th eEnglish divided idia into India and pakastan, and it reupted into Civil War, because everyone on the wrogn side of the lines drawn were really pissed off and angry abotu haivng to move thi9er lives. (Note, the movie was based on actual events).

0

People are different and are going to have different values and beliefs. I feel like we need to try to understand and be respectful of ALL differences. In actual fact - if we stick exclusively to what we think we believe, then we are missing out on new perspectives. The older we get - the more we think we know it all; but we don't and never will. People can't learn and grow without being exposed to contridictory and conflicting ideas. If we isolate ourselves or draw imaginary lines between us - we limit our capacity to grow intellectually.

I think I understand your point, but I feel compelled to point out that it's impossible for me to respect anyone who spews hatred.

@ClaireMilner I absolutely agree with that comment. No respect there and it's a sure way to build walls. We can't control how others think or how they chose to respond to things - but we can control ourselves.

0

How would you divide country>

0

The biggest division between liberal and conservative is urban vs rural. Can't exactly split the country along those lines...

0

I think we’d be happier. However, how do we do it? Would it need to be 3 countries: West, Central, and the Eastern States of America? If we split, East and West could greatly regulate guns, keep abortion legal, welcome immigrants, keep DACAs, protect and honor science, facts as well as the arts, have strong laws re protecting the environment and climate... and the red central states can do what they want to do. Obviously lots to sort out, but I don’t see us finding common ground or learning to accept each other. Unfortunately, serious violence between us I think is a real possibility.

0

So would you force divorce for a couple that were opposite ends? This would be controlled as if not more so than the system that already exists. Where would the line be drawn would medical care that would work for the terminally ill force you to change your affiliation so that you could live a normal life if the cure was on the other side? What about people in the middle that did not take either side would you force them to chose?

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