I understand what he was saying but also didn't care for that statement.

now legal in NY,,,,,,yeah!!

I have decided that Jesus was a real guy espousing ideas that are in line with Taoism, which would have been new for that area in that time, which may have originated with Daniel (who mentions a scroll that may have been the Tao te Ching) after meeting Lao Tzu in Iran after he left China. Interesting theory. In either case we can't say for sure that Jesus didn't exist at all and I find it unhelpful for planting a seed for movement away from OT God. Better to start with the idea that Jesus did exist and his message was corrupted by the time Bible was created by a Roman Emperor.

@rainmanjr I agree. His existance historically appears neither provable nor falsifiable. I tend to suspect there was an original figure of Jesus. But my point is the Biblical character remains built up into what the early church decided they wanted him to represent. He was illiterate, and none of his stories was written down during his life. The "miracles" became more fantastical the later the gospel was written. That in itself is laughably suspect..

Jesus would have been one of a number of wandering guru figures of the time. The fact that one of these is recalled through the ages can be explained by politics of Rome and some happenstance. He certainly seemed to style himself along the lines of John the Baptist, his second cousin. He also appears to have enjoyed some protection from Pontius Pilot, until that official's own execution, which opened the door for the Jewish leaders to press for Jesus'execution. There is no evidence he ever intended to be crucified. Early Christians picked up the pieces of that trajedy and ran with them, building their cult that Rome later spread for them.

@rainmanjr I’ve studied Taoism. I don’t consider it a religion more of a philosophy

I just like that picture and it seemed fitting.

Depends on whether alteration of consciousness is significant at all. Many religions modify consciousness, I experienced such in the Catholic mass a few times. Sufism, which I practiced for a short time with it's whirling certainly modifies consciousness. All the religious klap trap that encompasses this is nonsense. This is the thing with Buddhism, it's possible to remove the consciousness changing component, meditation, from all the cultural religious nonsense. As far as Jesus having a "secret message" is nonsense.

@Theresa_N save it, no religions or quasi religions or conciousness, trust me, it is all bullshit!

Maybe. Pronouncing it as a fact doesn't make it so, however.

@Mofo1953 Watts was a Zen Taoist sage, not even Buddhist, so wasn't arguing for the divinity of Jesus. Only that, in Tao or Buddhist philosophy, we are all gods.

@rainmanjr don't give a flying fuck what he thought he was, all these pseudo quasi religionisms or philosophies are just a load of bullshit.

@Mofo1953 I can’t agree that all philosophy is BS. You are welcome to your opinion but that’s what I tend to explore.

@Theresa_N They also mostly smoked weed. To Talk to Yaweh you had to light the sacred incense, it was actually non medical marijuana. they took a brasier filled it with coals or near redsuper heated stones and tossed it on by the handful. The Ancient Romans, Scynthians and just about anyone who knew about it did it. They also would try any drug they could.
The Scynthians (spl?) would set upt the brazier under a tripod toss in the weed, then took turns puting their heads in the 'tent" the Romans did this as well.

So we follow a religion based on Ancient middle eastern stoners . Wow, could be a comedy if it did not kill so many people over the millenia!

@rainmanjr never said what you are saying, what I said is that all pseudo or quasi religions or all pseudo or quasi philosophies are bullshit. The conjunction or is what you summarily eliminated.

@praytothemilkjug Yes they did. Who says drug triggered changes of consciousness are not real? LSD gave me more insight than anything else except reading.

@Theresa_N It well known that ancients and moderns use drugs to commune with "god". The ancient hebrews absolutely NEEDED the sacred incense to speak with Yaweh. They Had to have it burning all day. No smoke, no god (present), its in the Torah. Enough people have looked at everything they could find to ascertain what was in Anointing Oil and the incense. The only thing that can fit the description is/was cannabis. It is known that it was grown to smoke to get high. One very weird, (to us moderns) way was a confined space with a brassier filled with near flame and a handful or more of hemp flowers. Then , go in/stick your head in.

That is it. Climb in a small car, with a few people , some smoke, others do not the Contact High is Hot Boxing. I had it occur to me at college. I was in a low height lunch room, and doing homework. I realized I was holding my pencil upside down, so I was blasted. The smoke layer was down to 4 feet off the ground. All weed.

Mind expansion is not a guarantee of brilliance, but it does for some, inspire, inducing creativity.

If you look back to religion at its birth in antiquity, we were but children. We knew little, and it is why belief in a mythical god was a survival technique. It stopped us from turning into a bowl of quivering jello in fear of random natural events, and the cruelty of humanity. God was hope, death not as scary if you think well I get a reward after death.

Life being short, painful, and unfair made the concept of a god, any god, a good thing. Seekers of knowledge, those who tried to figure out why we are here, why does life suck, how to fix it, so a god makes sense. The use of drugs lets it bloom.

And mind altering chemicals is in virtually every culture that has access. The drugs become become restricted, (except for maybe Rastafarians ), and the religious leaders control it. They buried hemp in Judea it became Can/Sweet Cane. A favorite idea to me is that many many many orthodox jews are now using weed the way it was used in ancient Judea.

ciao