15 2

Not to delegitimize these recent sexual allegations, and I’m sure most of these are true and need to be addressed and it’s giving woman the power to stand up and feel empowered enough to speak out, but I’m sure there’s also a whole camp of woman who are taking advantage of the ambiguity of what constitutes sexual assault or misconduct, albeit it is true that it’s subjective.

Which is why I’d love to be an attorney - I feel very passionately about things - many things - things like nuclear weapons and other THINGS - including some bad things.. I’d also like to be a comedian..

Seriously - any comments about these allegations?

Jarucker 5 Nov 29

Enjoy being online again!

Welcome to the community of good people who base their values on evidence and appreciate civil discourse - the social network you will enjoy.

Create your free account


Feel free to reply to any comment by clicking the "Reply" button.


Lancer needs to be kicked off of this site. Calling women "bitches" should in no way be allowed on a site that calls for mutual respect. As for me, I am flagging his post below. I encourage all of you to do the same.

I called him out on some racist/xenophobic crap on another thread too. Did he get kicked out?


Women have been taking advantage of Divorces, child custody and allegations against men for a long time. It's so bad that in my city, a mother told her daughter to tell the police that her male teacher assaulted her. The mother proceeded to injure her own daughter by punching and kicking her in order to "legitimize" the claim. In court, when the defense lawyer asked the girl to explain what had happened (The male teacher was in the room and the girl lied right to his face). The stories and evidence didn't match up, eventually the defense lawyer accused the girl of lying and the other lawyer said "What's wrong with you. Why would a teenage girl ever lie?".

The truth was found out and the male teacher was found not guilty. But lost his job, friends, respect. He lost everything because a horrible mother and a useless daughter couldn't abide by the laws we as a society have all agreed upon. This is why men don't want to be teachers. Even if you're found innocent, it's the same as if you were found guilty. Men can't survive in this current society, they need help and soon. Because if we jail all the good men, what will happen to society as a whole?

Dude you need to get the smallest of clues. White males have controlled things for so long that they now feel the need to feign victimhood lest they lose their place. I say, it's about damn time you lose your place...and I gave birth to one of you. Lancer, get a grip.


There are a lot of guys on this thread who are either incapable of seeing the heinous consequences to women caused by our views on women or they think the few exceptions where a woman wasn't truthful put into question the VAST number of times a woman is willing to fight through and relive these horrific incidents just to try and receive some justice. Look, I can't come at this from the perspective of a woman, but I can tell the rest of us males that we need to stop this! There is a mountain of information out there and how about we use it to examine our sexual politics with as much thoroughness and energy we've used to question all the theism we've been bombarded with?

I am not disagreeing with you at all, but privilege makes many blind to what's really going on. On top of that, loss of privilege is a loss. It's like finding a winning lottery ticket and accidentally disintegrating the ticket. You never really deserved it, you never really earned it, you never even used it, but you feel real loss. As much as we need to fight to tear down that invisible privilege, we have to accept that those who have it now will feel loss and react accordingly. Many situations would be better if we learned to recognize and accept that... and then found a way to continue tearing down privilege.

I had "white privilege" for the first 21 years of my life. I was brown and surrounded by white people. My race was never really an issue since I traveled in geek/nerd circles and the community didn't have a real sense for how to stereotype me. I just thought that was normal. Then 09/11 happened and I really became brown. I lost white privilege immediately. I know what that feels like and so, although I hate the waves that Trump rode into power, I get it. I understand how he took a majority that was losing privilege and convinced a large chunk them that they were a minority being oppressed. Loss is loss.

So although, I definitely side with your sentiment that we need the male population to stop being defensive, we need to directly confront why men are defensive and not attack them. That is just my perspective on these "polarizing issues" and how I think we need to attack them.


Unfortunately there will always be twisted individuals who attempt to jump on the bandwagon. This is abhorrent with an issue like sexual assault, the existence of these people means that doubt creeps in about genuine assaults because it's in the back of people's minds " oh she was a fraud, so is this one?"
This will eventually lead to court cases where juries may already have preconceived ideas about victims and their accusations. It's a tricky area!


Bottom line: We are in a transitional time and it is bad. It has been much worse and will eventually be much better, but we are in a transitional time.

We need to establish a system that is far better than what we've had. This current time of mass allegations and potential false accusations may be incorrectly destroying the lives of up to 8%(per @Riley's comment below) of the males in the population, but we know for a fact that the lives of more than 50%(I do not know the number and cannot look it up at this time, sorry) of all females have been severely impacted by sexual assault and harassment, so destroying 8% of the male population is actually objectively better.

That is a fact.

It feels threatening because it is an increased threat to the male population, but it is a reduced threat to the overall population. Once we get through this transitional time, I expect the rate of occurrence to diminish, the length of investigations to increase and a more stable and better world for all of us.


I find your depiction distorted, distasteful, and with little merit. This is just the kind of hogwash I would expect from a man who wants to prey on women and get away with it.

Put away your thesaurus, it's obvious you don't know how to use those phrases. Accusing OP of being a rapist in the making because he wants to have a discussion is what's distasteful.


I guess nobody got the trump reference

I thought you were talking about Kevin Spacey LOL

It’s possible people got the reference and didn’t find it funny given the topic you made light of. Just sayin’

@SarahSiddons Could you maybe get off your "I'm so offended" high horse for a bit? People make jokes about the holocaust, dead babies, and the black plague. Sexual harassment and rape aren't worse than those.

@Kallandras Making dead baby jokes to people who lost their children and holocaust jokes to holocaust survivors is like making rape/sexual harassment jokes to rape/sexual harassment victims. You can do it, sure, but then you can't really get on their case for reacting strongly. I have an odd feeling that most of the women on this site and planet fall into that category, whereas there are fewer holocaust survivors and parents who have lost their children... Though I already know of at least 1 from the latter category on this site.

I am not saying I appreciate her tone at all, to be clear, I am saying I understand it and will not criticize her from my position of relative privilege, that privilege being that I am not a victim of rape/sexual harassment.

@DJVJ311 That's a fair point, those jokes are probably less funny to people who have personally suffered due to those issues. There's humor out there that I don't find funny, either, but I don't advocate censoring it or bother those people, I just move away from it.

My personal philosophy is that one should strive to get to a place where one can laugh and joke about the negative things in one's life. I have some friends who joke about crippling injuries they've sustained, and that seems vastly healthier for them than being unable to talk about it. By owning it and finding what humor exists around a shitty situation - and focusing on that humor - they seem more resilient to when their problems interfere in their life again.

@Kallandras I bet your friends with these crippling injuries would be pretty upset if a relative stranger started making the jokes out of the blue.


It seems everyone has to be either TOTALLY on the side of not questioning the claims or TOTALLY on the side of thinking the woman’s claims are bullshit..

No, I’m just saying it’s important to have discussion about these nuanced things. OTHERWISE. men, and woman, will continue to get away with sexual misconduct and rape and abuse..or there could also be a perpetual wave of baseless claims on alleged abusers, resulting in them losing their jobs or being ridiculed by the community in which they live or social media or news media.. I was accused of child molestation by a total narcisistic person totally out of the blue.. she just used me as a pawn to blackmail my family into getting what she wanted in regards to her own home life.. caused me devastating heartache. It was investigated by th dcfs and I was found innocent and she was found inconsistent in her story and uncredible. And the child was interviewed and said that I did not do anything wrong to him.

I feel for all the woman that have been abused in their lives, I really do. But everyone has a story, and sometimes it’s okay to question things.


I’m sorry if I came off as misogynistic, like I said I’m sure most, if not all are true, and it’s disgusting how these men can take advantage of the whole power dynamic thing. That being said, the reason I posted this is for us to acknowledge that there are also women, and men, that are taking advantage of the whole political climate to get recognition, or unjustified “revenge.”

Just saying it exists.
We need to stop being so politically correct all the time and use common sense.


I think you should neither be an attorney or a comedian. Your post is dripping with the kind of misogyny which keeps women from coming forward.

It's a complex issue. We have an innocent until proven guilty standard for criminal accusations in the U.S., and rape or sexual harassment are not an exception to this any more than murder is.

Women absolutely need to be taken seriously, but the OP raises a valid point. Your reflex accusation of misogyny discourages men from seeking a real discourse.

If it’s civil discourse you seek.....
Don’t wrap the matter in a joke that hints at an admitted sexual assaulter at 1600 Pennsylvania AVE.....suggesting your take would make you a comedian.


I have been "assaulted" at work more than once (this was many, many years ago) and when I went to HR they laughed and said, "Oh, no HE would never do anything like that. How does it make one feel to be denied her truth? Let alone being assaulted? Corporate gaslighting, aye? I'm glad that women are standing up and speaking out. It's about time. When I was fourteen, working my first fancy store summer job, I was locked in the storage room, after work, by my boss. He had asked me to do inventory after store hours. I was naive enough to agree. He started attacking me (he had a black belt in Judo) and the only way I got out of that situation was to start kissing him back and saying something like I was into him, but that I was ovulating and didn't use the pill. He then unlocked the storage room door to get a condom and I was right behind him and I bolted like a wild horse out of a stall. I never told my family because my dad would have gone there and hurt him or be hurt by him. Because I kissed him back he could have said it was consensual. But I knew if he raped me and I fought him he would not have let me live to tell the tale. He had too much to lose as a wealthy businessman man. This is how young people disappear. It was doing what I had to do to survive. Looking back I should have reported him to the police to keep him from attacking other little girls. I regret that to this day. Funny, this is the first time I've talked about this in decades.

Let me add that my sister worked as a forensic nurse gathering evidence in rape and battery cases. MOST of the women were afraid to talk to the police about being raped and beaten and humiliated. She had a very hard time getting these women to want to testify. Most feared that:" 1) if it was her husband he would abuse her more if she "ratted' on him, 2) she would not be able to support herself and her kids if her partner was jailed, 3) if it was work related the women feared to lose their jobs, 4) they felt they would not be believed or would be accused of "asking for it." 5) they didn't want to shame their families, 6) they didn't want to talk about it in a court setting. Many reasons that kept women quiet. It's good that they are finding their voice.

When I went to my mother, at twelve, to tell her about what happened to me at a friend’s, she didn’t take me seriously.

I shared so you won’t be alone. It’s one of the worst feelings to be disbelieved. @hope4zoe

Annaleda, thank you so much for sharing. I'm so sorry that you weren't believed. It's insult to injury. It's even harder when the people who love don't believe you.

It is stories like yours and too many other women's that SHOULD force all of us men to rethink and change our sexual politics. It takes courage to share something like this in an open forum. And don't be too hard on yourself for not doing more. You were only 14! And yet you managed to survive and even escape a horrific situation with an amazing amount of cleverness.

When I was sixteen, I worked at a local KFC I was grabbed by a co-worker one night after closing. I got away but when I called the next day to tell the manager what happened and that I refused to work with the guy, I was fired. At my next job, my ass was grabbed by co-worker, this time a forty-something MISSIONARY with a wife and three kids. Can't count the number of times in my life when men stared or made lewd comments to me in public places, or pulled their dick out of their pants just because. It's still a man's world...but maybe we can change it if all we women stick together.


Although it is certainly wrong to molest a female, this current wave of accusations seems to punish the man before it is even proven. The example of Matt Lauer, and others, being immediately fired just from the accusation. But maybe, since they are not denying it, justice is being served.

Lauer did not deny anything he was presented with as cause for termination.

The court of public opinion does not have very much in the way of civil procedure.

I don't like the pressure on women to not speak up - I have family who were silenced on issues of harassment - but I also don't like how just an accusation can ruin lives, either.

It's a complex problem that requires a nuanced approach, but fraught with emotion - which tends to push people into extreme positions with no room for nuance

Also, it is possible that the company has been "counselling" these people for years in their sealed employee files and given the current environment, they know they can't do that anymore. If there were no claims against him in HR and management and he was the public face of something for 20 years, I think the company would have investigated longer.

Please cease and desist with the "poor me" rhetoric. It's ridiculous and does NOTHING to help the situation.


Why does there have to be questions and constant use of allegations? Why can’t someone say that something terrible has happened to them, and then get help for it, instead of having to prove it over and over? To me, this post is your way of saying you don’t believe this harm happened and you want to test the waters on whom is of your thinking. I just wish I hadn’t viewed it.

I worked as a civilian contractor for the department of defence for 5 years and a bartender/server on the side for the last 20 years and change. I remember sitting in our annual sexual harassment training required by active duty military personnel, GS employees and contractors. Midway through a Navy captain and physician actually said “wait, I thought the purpose of this training was to make you better at it”.

The reason I haven’t participated in the #metoo movement is simply because when I begin to recall it gets too painful and I shut down. The women who have come forward have certainly earned my respect, I don’t have the guts to do it and I can think of several men who are glad I don’t.

Sarah, I have been to the same safety briefings and unfortunately heard very simular conversation. It was a HELL of a lot worse out at sea. Girls would get their asses grabbed all day and nothing was done, because if she reported it she would get booted off the boat basically ending her career. Hell we even had a few girls that were selling BJs and if caught would get nothing and the guys would get kick out. When asked why they were doing it, stated for the money and to get some of the ass grabbers in trouble.

There is a question of proof because if the claims are true, the perpetrators should be punished harshly and kept away from situations where they could offend again. If the claims are false, then an innocent person would be subjected to that punishment, which is wrong.

All claims should be taken seriously and investigated: there should not be a presumption of innocence so strong as to avoid investigation, but neither should there be a presumption of guilt as soon as a claim is made.

Sadly, people rarely have the patience to see what an investigation reveals.


That's the difficult part when it comes to situations like this. How do you tell the difference between someone who has genuinely been violated and someone who is just attempting to bribe somebody? Unless there are witnesses or the alleged perpetrator admits to the crime, it's very difficult.

I think you should ask yourself why you feel you need to tell the difference or pass any judgement if you have zero involvement.

The process of telling the difference and passing judgement is up criminal investigation teams and trial juries, so unfortunately it's ultimately going to be up to people who have zero direct involvement. It's not the perfect system. Sometimes the guilty walk and sometimes the innocent are convicted. But it's how our legal system functions. And ultimately, it gives everyone who has been accused of a crime a fair hearing.

@SarahSiddons We should consider the validity of the claims because Roy Moore is a pedophile and we should not let him into Congress. Because Kevin Spacey is a predatory person and paying for movies he starred in to day still goes into his pocket. These are things that I think the public has every right to consider and I think it is ethical to do so.


But why would any woman lie about sexual assault or 'misconduct'?

I have personally known two such women. Both times was to get a male fired. First time the alleged attack was in front of a camera she didn't know had been installed that showed that nothing happened except for an argument. The second case the woman wanted his job and accused the guy of making unwanted sexual advances on her. She didn't know that he was 100% gay. In both cases, the men were 100% not guilty. With that said I do believe/know 99% of all accusations are backed by truth, because let's face it, men as a whole are sex crazed assholes.

I would think the same thing if I hadn't witnessed it for myself. Some people sink to really ugly things at times.

If you said once or twice I would not think much of it, but five arrests for the same thing? What's going on? Are you with a liar or five liars and why do these women all accuse you of the same thing over an over? Something's not right in Denmark, Atheist.

Write Comment
You can include a link to this post in your posts and comments by including the text q:5883
Agnostic does not evaluate or guarantee the accuracy of any content. Read full disclaimer.