it isnt very pleasant in the moment i guess, but viruses serve a vital purpose, that we must have to survive as a species

No one has ever gone up to heaven but yet the flawed bible book has many stories of those who did. What is wrong here? Nobody knew that the 66 plus books would ever be bound as one book. Problem solved.

@DenoPenno

Astronauts really exist. They have been as far into the heavens as the moon, it's TRUE.

@Word I am aware of astronauts. My post is a mock of the bible. In the OT it said "no one has ever gone up to heaven."

@DenoPenno not disputing truth or fiction and I am not aware where your reference comes from, but O.T. does indicate that Elijah was:

2 Kings 2
New International Version
Elijah Taken Up to Heaven
2 When the Lord was about to take(A) Elijah up to heaven in a whirlwind,

@DenoPenno “ No one has ever gone up to heaven but yet the flawed bible book has many stories of those who did”

ah, could you quote one? Or even a name if you like. But there are none, including “elijah,” as we might see

@Word no offense, but that is an english translation, and it is strictly wishful thinking,
[biblehub.com]
“from an unused word” prolly meaning more like “sky,” but a strange way to refer to sky even; a poetic word, most likely. But even ouranos and shamayim were used for “heavens,” as in “sky,” although could also be used for “third heaven”

but after all, where is that supposed to be?
the kingdom of heaven is within you
right?

So a literal “third heaven” the way we understand it now (and the ancient hebrews decidedly did not) is a complete fail no matter how you cut, unless you want to believe really, really hard, and are prepared to ignore the vv that you don't like. Even jews today do not share our concept of heaven

@bbyrd009 ◄ 8064. shamayim ►
Strong's Concordance
shamayim: heaven, sky
Original Word: שָׁמַיִם
Part of Speech: Noun Masculine
Transliteration: shamayim
Phonetic Spelling: (shaw-mah'-yim)
Definition: heaven, sky

@bbyrd009 Shamayim is the dwelling place of God and other heavenly beings, erets is the home of the living, and sheol is the realm of the dead, including, in post-Hebrew Bible literature (including the New Testament), the abode of the righteous dead.

Shamayim (שָׁמַיִם), the Hebrew word for "heaven" (literally heavens, plural), denotes one component of the three-part biblical cosmology, the other elements being erets (the earth) and sheol (the underworld). Shamayim is the dwelling place of God and other heavenly beings, erets is the home of the living, and sheol is the realm of the dead, including, in post-Hebrew Bible literature (including the New Testament), the abode of the righteous dead.[1] [en.m.wikipedia.org]

@Word ya ya, its like this, its like that, got it
the kingdom of heaven is within you
and now youre done, right?

and i edited up there fwiw, but the web has plenty of commentary on the ancient hebrew concept of “heavens” anyway; obviously not what we refer to today

elijah is “taken up in a whirlwind” even, right? Will a strong enough wind take one to imaginationland, do you think? It is the worst kind of exegesis that forces that perspective, imo, and the bible even admits that elijah was “taken from elisha’s sight”

@bbyrd009 yes, they say you(we) are made of star dust, so to say, there are elements of the kingdom of heavens within people.

ok

i guess according to my current rabbi source, there was some literal understanding of a “third heaven,” but to them it meant more like “not in our sight,” which phrase or similar i guess always accompanies these vv, although i havent checked that, dunno. But Jews don't even hold our concept of “heaven” today

Much more likely that Elijah (and Enoch) were being “elevated” in their literature…and after all, we are still talking about them today

“Elysian Fields” is more likely where we get our current concept of heaven from, given that our english bibles were translated by norse/angle scribes, but imo any believer who thinks they might ascend to “heaven” after they have died is not even reading their own book, as jesus and john make very plain, imo

@bbyrd009 my understanding of modern Jews waiting on the messiah that do not accept Jesus as messiah are waiting for things like a 3rd temple. Jesus refered to destroying the temple and rebuilding it in 3 days. He was referring to his body as being the temple, not one made of stone. And, vaguely, they are expecting a time of "the lion and lamb" to live peaceful together. It is Jesus that was the lion of tribe of Juda and lamb that was slain. Jesus the metaphorical lion and the lamb that modern jews don't understand. That's my understanding on some of the ....reasons for descreprancy? Between understandings?

@Word ya well i wouldnt listen to them for much, for the reasons you stated, plus Yah imploded their theocracy not once, but many times, right. All thats really left now are Ashkenazi Zionists, all trying to breed red heifers, no better than christian believers who want to make everything “exist” too imo

the younger generation have pretty much all bailed from that, i noticed; none of those i know go to temple, etc, and these are in jerusalem!

@Word i mean don't get me wrong ok, id love to “go to heaven” as much as the next guy, but that just takes too many assumptions imo that the bible shoots down; one must have a soul rather than be a soul (or life, same root) and etc