But is that genetic, or social and familial scripting?

@MsKathleen I think it is both, genetic and cultural.

@snytiger6 I think that Christians-turned-Atheists disprove that.

Not to forget mentioning ACCESS to information. Poor people generally score lower on IQ tests, simply because they lack exposure to knowledge, which is mostly what IQ tests test.

@MsKathleen Yes that is probably true, although the only IQ test that I am familiar with, is that of MENSA which deliberately avoides knowledge based questions for that reason. But of course knowledge can indirectly help with nearly all problem solving, however abstract the puzzles may be, so it is probably impossible to remove the bias in reality.

Thanks for posting the link.

It is quite the opposite!
you can say; the religious concept is adopted from an Imaginary friend.
children's imaginations don't have any idea about "God" which is a stupid Adult's concept! but there are so many Adults with childhood issues. this's why they describe GOD like a Father.

@Diaco Biblically, you are just about spot on. (God = logos). Logos from Greek is thought, word, speech and reasoning.

The biblical theme is Jesus is a product from the logos of the old testiment people(son of man). A meme organism that was spoken into existence from the thoughts(logos) of the old testiment people.

The imagination being the father thought, Pnuema (greek) or ruach(hebrew) being the force of spoken words.

John 1:1 In the beginning was the logos, the logos was with God and was God. ... logos become flesh. John 1:14.

Their imagination evolved into a person by way of meme organism.

One biblical author understand because he was very educated in the old testiment Paul the apostle being "Pharisee among pharisees " was very well educated in old testiment Jewish texts, kind of like an attorney to day knowing the Law. This is why he writes for people to cast down or block out imagination so to not produce another Jesus style God meme organism.

Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ; 2 Corinthians 10:5

The expression "the Son of man" occurs 81 times in the Greek text of the four canonical gospels, and is used only in the sayings of Jesus.[3] The Hebrew expression "son of man" (בן–אדם i.e. ben-'adam) also appears in the Torah over a hundred times.[4] [en.m.wikipedia.org]

I had one of those.

@Diaco just another biblical reference showing the understanding biblically that they knew they were dealing with a meme organism.

for, “Who has known the mind of the Lord so as to instruct him?” But we have the mind of Christ. 1 Corinthians 2:16

Christians develop a Jesus meme organism to then have a "mind (meme organism in their brain) of Christ(Jesus ).

@Diaco Lastly, let me explain this synopsis.

Imaginary friend is, or starts where? Where is imagination? In thoughts that are 1/3rd of logos. Trinity of God/logos: thought(imagination), word(written in text that you are reading), speech (kinetic energy of air molecules bouncing through the air).

Think of a word in your thoughts. Example: "Taco". Speak "Taco" with your voice and write taco in text written form. When the intended means are all the same, taco in thought, text(word) and spoken (speech) are the same.

A meme (/miːm/ MEEM)[1][2][3] is an idea, behavior, or style that spreads by means of imitation from person to person within a culture.

God/logos the "father" idea thought (imaginary friend) gets passed thru the many generations of the old testiment Jewish geneology. There are "prophetic" attributes added throughout the generations.

As written, Jesus statement is giving corroborating connection to Jesus character of new testiment to the text-words of old testiment.

John 5:39
You study the old testiment diligently ... These are the very Scriptures that testify about me,

John 14:9
...Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father...

Think about moving a muscle, thoughts have power over matter of your body.

Understand the power of though, word, speech - logos.

A demonstration example: Guinness World Records has recognized the biblical text as being most copied text of it's kind. 1/3rd of meme organism.

Meme organism - A meme (/miːm/ MEEM)[1][2][3] is an idea, behavior...

What behavior is demonstrated to have spread for 1000s of years? Copying biblical text.

SCRIBES (IN THE BIBLE)
A group of Jewish leaders who flourished from the time of the Exile until the destruction of the Jewish state by Titus (70 a.d.). Originally their name (Heb. sōperêm, writers) was used merely of clerks whose function was to copy royal and sacred manuscript.

And then, I remembered another little bit of evidence. Are you familiar with illogical atheist and neurologist Sam Harris? He is one of our modern Gods of atheism.

I am not famuliar indepth with his brain activity research but his "free will" or lack there of argument. I would purpose, with further research or verfication, the brain activity antecedent to cognitive awareness could very well be evidence of a meme mind virus organism with its cognition capabilities conjoined in the brain structure that influences or makes decisions for people.

Imaginary friend is often used as a derogatory description or connected to a belief in god by non-religous people when describing those who hold religious beliefs, however, there is no evidence to support such a statement. Basically, it is a put down statement.

Contrariwise, in the case of children what evidence is there to support the claim that a children's belief in an imaginary friend has got anything to do with a god or supreme being?

@Word, Obviously, you're a believer, and it's your absolute right. so, Good for you!
the only thing I can say is: Your argument is fundamentally Wrong. then let's agree to disagree.

@Diaco A believer in what? In the absence of factually based knowledge it seems to me that the best course of action is to suspend belief when and where appropriate rather than jump to hasty conclusions for which there is no evidence.

@Diaco, @ASTRALMAX Belief simply means hold information as true. Do you believe in science? You then hold science true and you are a believer.

@Diaco, @ASTRALMAX I understand the implications and connotations for which YOU are applying the word :believer" upon me. In that case, YOU are wrong. Yes, I can hold facts and information as true so long as I have reasonable grounds to do so. I am no more of a "believer" than you are.

Here is an old time country gospel song I like about being a believer, hope you enjoy the tune.

The difference is that with regard to science there is general or universal agreement based on observation and verification of facts. A simple example would be that water with one or two exceptions, in various parts of the world, boils at 100 C or 212F. Doubtless, you can think of many more examples..

@Diaco And, I make and have no argument. So YOU are wrong and illogical for assuming I am arguing anything.

@ASTRALMAX, @Diaco you might should learn some scientific understanding so you know the difference in and argument and an observation. Here is a starting point for you to educate yourself and not look so much like typical illogical atheist.

What is the difference between argument and observation? - Quora
1 answer
An observation is a truth claim based upon what can be perceived directly by the senses and pertains to what we call “facts” in the ordinary sense

[quora.com]

And? I do know that there are some people who like to argue, in spite of any facts presented to them. As a late friend once said: "Arguments, like opinons, are expressions of ignorance. About the fact there can be no argument, we can only discuss them."

@Word, my friend, you've started with this: " Imaginary friend is often connected to this thing people call religion."
and then 4-5 long comments and quotes from the bible as references and proof.
to me it's an argument by its definition: " argument = a reason or set of reasons given with the aim of persuading others that an action or idea is right or wrong. "
observation !!!!! what observation!?
You know, you're 100% right my friend Peace

@Diaco atheist meme mind virus organism in your brain fight against my observations giving you thoughts that my observations are wrongfully connected.

@Diaco observation of things and how they are connected. Illogical atheist meme mind virus wants to argue.

@Diaco you have to do your own self psychoanalysis to observe if you have the atheism meme mind virus organism in your brain. It would be my observations that chances are, you do have the atheism meme mind virus organism in your brain.

@Diaco argument versus observation.

I see something this is what it appears to me and how things are connected. You look to understand my observations and I am open to anything you think about my observations as not correct in seeing.

Your argument is simply to tell me I am wrong because you BELIEVE I am wrong.

YOU have not made any observations or objective statements that shows my observations wrong.

You are the one arguing that YOU think you are right and I am wrong.

Please feel free to objectively point out where ever you think I am not seeing or understanding something correctly. You are the one arguing not make observations because YOU just think I need to be convinced that your style of atheism is right.

@Diaco Is the cup blue? My observation: NO, the cup is not blue.

Do you know science? Do you know physics?

Blue light reflects from the cup. The light from the cup is blue.

Do you want to argue my observations?

@Word, obviously, you misunderstood about Observation step in the scientific method! pls check the links below :
[khanacademy.org]
[amnh.org]
[livescience.com]

@Diaco From your first link. 1. Make an observation.
Let's suppose that you get two slices of bread, put them into the toaster, and press the button. However, your bread does not toast.

The statement "bread does not toast", Is the written account of the observation.

I observe statement God = logos. (John 1:1)

I observe word coined by Illogical atheist Richard Dawkins "meme".

I observe other biblical references as to the biological nature for Jesus of biblical text.

2. Ask a Question: How is it possible that I personally have experienced prophetic,(psychic) extra sensory perception, precognative dreams that come to furition?

3. Propose a hypothesis. It appears to me Jesus of biblical text is a "son of meme" organism with cognition capability unto itself based on the old testiment generations, stories and themes of biblical text. From my dream "logos" I seen a man while asleep dreaming. When I met this man in person after the dream he refered to himself by 4 titles, "Alpha and omega ", grim reaper, son of Lucifer, and nameless-faceless one.

I later found only one reference for title "nameless-faceless one" to be from a modern Christian prophet.

4. Make predictions. If the "Angelic host" as themed in biblical text is a mind virus organism capabilities of interaction with peoples brains like the zombie ant fungus interactions with the ant to control its thinking and behavior then the biblical prophesy of "Apostasy " falling away from christianity will occur.

@Diaco God of Spinoza is God of old testiment, the eternal that has always been. Not specifically a person because a person does not occupy space at all ends of space at the points of infinity in every direction. Nor would a "thinking " cognition hold knowledge at each side of infinity in every direction so that at any point with in infinity at every direction, the cognition thinking knows the information about the location of infinity in every direction from every infinate point.

God = "nature" and all of "nature" capabilities that has brought about cognition.

The Angelic hosts are "created " beings as "mankind" is created from the "eternal " nature God of Spinoza, the god of old testiment being the causation for people and "Angelic " host.

The people of old testiment are from atoms of the "eternal" God of Spinoza- natural, and as purported in biblical text, the old testiment people are the creators of Jesus style "Angelic " god *elohim.

How does biblical text indicate Jesus Angelic host was created?

By way of the meme organism passing thru the old testiment generatio by passing the meme in accordance with how illogical atheist Richard Dawkins defined the meme.

Biblical theme lines up with illogical atheist Richard Dawkins biological nature for a meme organism.

@Diaco how to test a meme organism development into a Jesus style God?

The biblical text indicates you start with an "Adam and Eve" couple and you have their "meme" information passed from generations for several 1000 years and that meme as defined by illogical atheist and biologist Richard Dawkins could be evaluated to see if another Jesus style God might be brought before the government, called a liar, beaten and crusified. The old testiment prophess are the "information " of the meme organism. The meme organism mutation and development as defined by illogical atheist Richard Dawkins is predicated on the MIMICKED actions of old testiment words and prophecies.

@Diaco observation statement based on understanding theme of biblical text and meme definition provided by illogical atheist and biologist Richard Dawkins: biological nature of Jesus a meme organism created by logos.

If you do not understand logos, cognition, meme organism or biblical text then you will not understand the evolution of a meme mind virus organism.

@Diaco we first started discussion when you posted about people fulfilling biblical text claim to be Jesus deceiving many people.

I observe that as a meme organism in action. The prophesy in biblical text says "For many will come in my name, claiming, ‘I am the Messiah,’ and will deceive many." Matthew 24:5

Observation as you posted the fact that people are claiming to be Jesus.

I asked the question in you original post: "Why would some read the bible and see it says that a person claiming to be Jesus is just deceiving people.

Question:
Do you think people read the 2000 year old prophesy and say" I must be the one to fulfill prophesy and falsely claim to be Jesus so I can deceive many people so that the biblical prophesy can be fulfilled "

Why are, or how is it that people claim to be Jesus when the biblical prophesy clearly says anyone claiming to be Jesus is a false claim?

It appears to me, my observations, that it is evidence of a meme organism in active operation.

@Diaco I just thought I would clarify for discussion here. When I say observation here, I am more so reference to the colloquial sense of definition not specifically the scientific sense of the definition. So, my statements of observations here are not exactly a scientific treatise
noun: treatise; plural noun: treatises
a written work dealing formally and systematically with a subject.

Observation

1. the action or process of observing something or someone carefully or in order to gain information.
2. a remark, statement, or comment based on something one has seen, heard, or noticed.

@Word , I know, that's why I've sent those links. as I said before you're more like Philosopher! the Only thing I want/can understand is Science. don't forget Philosophy is more of a personal perspective. anyway, Good luck

@Diaco Complementary to its role in conceptual clarification, philosophy can contribute to the critique of scientific assumptions—and can even be proactive in formulating novel, testable, and predictive theories that help set new paths for empirical research.Mar 5, 2019
[pnas.org] › content
Opinion: Why science needs philosophy | PNAS

@Diaco Subsequently, the coherentist approach to science, in which a theory is validated if it makes sense of observations as part of a coherent whole, became prominent due to W.V. Quine and others. Some thinkers such as Stephen Jay Gould seek to ground science in axiomatic assumptions, such as the uniformity of nature. A vocal minority of philosophers, and Paul Feyerabend in particular, argue that there is no such thing as the "scientific method", so all approaches to science should be allowed, including explicitly supernatural ones. Another approach to thinking about science involves studying how knowledge is created from a sociological perspective, an approach represented by scholars like David Bloor and Barry Barnes. Finally, a tradition in continental philosophy approaches science from the perspective of a rigorous analysis of human experience.

[en.m.wikipedia.org]

@Word , philosophy can be useful to make Questions, not to Explain phenomena.

@Diaco There is no such thing as philosophy-free science; there is only science whose philosophical baggage is taken on board without examination.

— Daniel Dennett, Darwin's Dangerous Idea, 1995

@Diaco Theories of Explanation
Within the philosophy of science there have been competing ideas about what an explanation is. Historically, explanation has been associated with causation: to explain an event or phenomenon is to identify its cause. But with the growth and development of philosophy of science in the 20th century, the concept of explanation began to receive more rigorous and specific analysis.

[iep.utm.edu]

@Diaco 7. Conclusion
The question of the source of the success of science has been at the core of philosophy since the beginning of modern science. If viewed as a matter of epistemology more generally, scientific method is a part of the entire history of philosophy. Over that time, science and whatever methods its practitioners may employ have changed dramatically. Today, many philosophers have taken up the banners of pluralism or of practice to focus on what are, in effect, fine-grained and contextually limited examinations of scientific method. Others hope to shift perspectives in order to provide a renewed general account of what characterizes the activity we call science.

[plato.stanford.edu]

@Word , so, Quotes from Philosophers about how Philosophy is great and useful!... super Convincing! Ok, my friend, let's take a break.

@Diaco I am not really understanding how you seperate science and scientific methods from philosophy.

Can you explain this seperation?

@Diaco before taking our break, I thought I would try and help clear something up for you. You said referring to a quote I gave you from one of the modern Gods of atheism, Daniel Dennett. "so, Quotes from Philosophers about how Philosophy is great and useful!... super Convincing! Ok, my friend, let's take a break.

I just want to point out, even as Daniel Dennett is considered a philosopher, he is also recognized as a scientist.

Are you familiar with him? He is one of our modern Gods of atheism know to be in a group called the 4 horsemen.

Daniel Clement Dennett III is an American philosopher, writer, and cognitive scientist whose research centers on the philosophy of mind, philosophy of science, and philosophy of biology, particularly as those fields relate to evolutionary biology and cognitive science. Wikipedia

With a total worldwide population of just over 18 million Jews!!!

The rate of .00001% of this planets human population that makes them possible more capable of higher IQ’s!!!

Of course all of this is very subjective at best!!!

@of-the-mountain it is still an observable observation. That means it is objective I could be disputed, research further and given verfication either way.

@Word
Why so paranoid???

I never disputed your observations!!!

You just as easily stated any other minorities as a possible statistic!!!

Of those statistics if more than 30% are American/British and Christian, can you draw a similar conclusion?

@of-the-mountain I don't understand your thinking I am paranoid about anything.

And I am not understanding you comment about other minority statistics. The data of Nobel prize winners just points to a disproportionate number of Jewish people being laureates. How does that compare or correlate to some other nationality of a minority in world population?

@St-Sinner In an estimate by Baruch Shalev, between 1901-2000 about 65.4% of Nobel prize winners were either Christians or had a Christian background.[1] Here is a non exhaustive list of some of the prize winners who publicly identified themselves as Christians.
[en.m.wikipedia.org]

By country: U.S. and U.K. looks to have the most.
United States 398 (400)
United Kingdom 137 (138)
[en.m.wikipedia.org]

I guess you can describe what ever conclusion you think appropriate. Not for sure what you intend otherwise.

@Word

Your statement suggested that 20% Jewish makes Israel a blessed land. So a much higher Christian percentage should make the UK and US much more blessed lands.

But looking at all three lands with so much conflict, disharmony.... none of the three looks blessed.

I think your extrapolating the 20% in Nobel to call Israel great is far fetched. Israel is one of most fucked up lands and societies.

@St-Sinner

Matthew 10:34-36
Jesus is purported to say:
34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.

35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.

36 And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.

Statement to Ishmael the patriarch to Islam a brother (of sorts to Judaism and christianity of same Abraham).
...his hand will be against everyone and everyone’s hand against him, and he will live in hostility toward all his brothers.” Genesis 16:12

I think it is very well observed that Islam is very much at odds with brothers Judaism and Christianity.

@Word

Why are you quoting stupid scriptures? Are you religious?

@St-Sinner biblical text is evidence of meme organism as explained by illogical atheist Richard Dawkins. Jesus is a meme organism, the biblical text gives documentation of meme organism.

Religion ... pure and faultless is this: to help widows and orphans in need while avoiding worldly corruption. James 1:27

Yes, I can believe in the 2000 year old definition of religion that is defined as helping widows and orphans while avoiding worldly corruption. B

@Word

You are in your own world and not talking normal. Enjoy your bliss.

its a legit psychological condition for some.

Could it have been a case of: "The whole problem of the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts.” Bertrand Russell

@ASTRALMAX

I am sure she was sure of her beliefs but it did not do her good in life and it finally killed her prematurely. She would get up at 4 am to go to temple every day (and go to work) but could not find time to see a doctor in 30 years. We were all screaming out loud.

I have doubts because I am a free thinker and my thoughts are open to debate. Thoughts of the religious are not open to debate. It is offending to them.

@St-Sinner It must have been a frustrating and harrowing experience for you and the rest of the family.

@ASTRALMAX

I am sure many families have an example like this.

Brother ignored her beliefs and just loved her, Mom tried to tell her for years but she dragged her into customs every now and then. Others she surrounded herself with took advantage of her by asking for favors, help, borrow money and drag her more into religion. All of her friends are deeply religious. After her death, they swarmed around me with the same crap. I told them to stop.

I fought with her all the time. I am younger just by 1.5 year but she cared about me like a second Mom. We were poor but she found money for me picnics, clothes, she paid for college, she bough the US air ticket and called and traveled me to check how I was doing. Yes, she going down was frustrating. It has been 6 years since she died and I am still synthesizing how it all happened.

How can one sibling of a non-religious family be superstitious and a blind believer since childhood beats me. That's why I say it must be brain wiring and emotional IQ. It cannot be just IQ because she blew us and others out of water on all achievements - academic, linguistic, artistic, professional and financial.

@St-Sinner From your account of your late sister it seems to me that such a person would be deeply missed in any family. Perhaps it is all too easy to ascribe her beliefs to emotional insecurity or immaturity as such explanations are often cited.

It would seem that your sister did not experience any internal inconsistency or conflict with her beliefs and her intellectual achievements. I surely do not know what to to make of it, except to say that it is clearly a tragic and deeply sad loss and I empathize with you.

@ASTRALMAX

Thank you.