My favorite argument is Pascal’s Wager. I think it’s fantastic when debating the nature of religion and someone tries to say that I’m better off believing in God than not believing because if I die a believer and I’m right, I get to go heaven. If I die a believer and I’m wrong nothing happens.
What is the best rebuttal to this argument?
My answer is, I will deal with that when it comes time. Even if he were real I would never worship an a** hat and would have no problems telling him so if we ever met.
In the brimstone with you heathen! lol I used to debate a friend of mine who was a youth pastor and I said something similar. His response was fairly typical, something about talking tough now but not on judgment day.
@AmorousAdam hahaha I'm a person that speaks her mind I have 0 concern for who I'm talking to. Say something truly idiotic and I will let you know. Don't get me wrong I don't spout off but if you have been told the truth and still insist on doing truly dumb things I have no mercy. Don't even get me started on the antivax and natural health food stuff.
I usually tell them they are gambling, there are so many different Gods and religions. What makes you think you picked the right one? Do you worry about other religions heaven or hell? Do you think your faith is different from one who belongs to a different religion?
Logically just the sheer range of possible gods makes it a losing game. But my favorite take is to say, ok, you chose right and now this god lets you into its personal club for all eternity.
Have you never seen any of the Saw movies?
You can't truly "believe in" something that you don't believe in. If you die a fake believer, do you think God would accept that at the pearly gates?
This has been asked and answered multiple times on here.
Here's the wiki answer:
Criticism of Pascal's Wager began in his own day, and came from both atheists, who questioned the 'benefits' of a deity whose 'realm' is beyond reason, and the religiously orthodox, who primarily took issue with the wager's deistic and agnostic language. It is criticized for not proving God's existence, the encouragement of false belief, and the problem of which religion and which God should be worshipped.
I hadn't answered before and wikis answer is not mine. So it's a good thing this question was asked again.
I will not comment on the two options where god exists for it is a waste of time. The two options where god doesn't exist: 1- No god and you believe = Pascal says "no gain" but it is really a complete life of fear and the angst of not knowing if you are one of the only 144,000 chosen who go to heaven. 2- No god and no believe = life of happiness and no worries!
It's logically flawed because it posits only two possibilities, the christian god and nothing, when there is no more evidence for the christian god than there is Zeus or Ahura Mazda or whatever. You might say, you have denied thousands of gods, I go one further.
So live in hell now in order to avoid it later? Pretend to believe something to avoid being punished by an all knowing God that knows you are pretending anyway? It is a useless bet in my opinion and not worth the wager. It is not logical!
as an agnostic, and this being an agnostic site, people are simply missing the point. a believe in god does not get you to heaven, but a submission to that believe, after all, supposedly, the devil/satan believed in god, he just opposed him and where did that get him ?
Obviously the vast number of possible gods and their associated texts contradict each other in many ways, so rejecting all is similarly risky as picking the wrong one.
I don't think theres really a need for a rebuttal as whoever is doing the wager is doing it with themselves its their bet, let them get on with it . Thats what life is all about - learning and fun-
For me I don't think winning is the part of the game that I play for.
I can't make myself believe something I don't believe. That's, like, not "belief". That's self-delusion.
I either believe something or I don't. So couldn't "wager" with my beliefs if I tried.
@AmorousAdam
Pascal's Wager is just a way of avoiding the descriptive basis for whether a God(s) exists or not-why should the nature of such a dispute warrant Pascal's Wager? It makes no sense, because a course of action has interrupted a train of well-reasoned thought. Should action govern thought, or should a person think about the facts first, and then decide a course of action? Which is the better method? People who think that Pascal's Wager is a good argument are not recognizing that.
It isn't an argument (of the existence of god), isn't it more a suggestion (to believe regardless of existence)? Suggestions don't require rebuttal.
If pushed to it, I'd appeal to dignity and self respect. There could be plenty of things useful to believe, but criteria for believing something can't be how useful it is. We can do better than that!
Only believe in God if you feel that belief benefits you today. In the end we all go to the same place regardless. This was the overriding theme of Ecclesiastes. It's in the bible.