We should not be surprised by the military tactics of the Russians. From WW II onward, the Russian Army has simply relied on massive. crude brute force. To provide a comparison, in using artillery, the American army used a system of artillery used a system of artillery artillery surveyors to establish calculated aiming reference points, forward observers, and Math driven fire direction control to us artillery accurately and precisely.
In contrast the Russian army simply used crude estimates and walked their artillery trough their own troops, killing many hundreds of their own soldiers, and moving that fire forward until they finally reached their targets. In dealing with enemy forces in cities, they simply destroyed as much of a city as they could with artillery fire and tanks. They destroyed some 80 to 90 percent of the buildings in Berlin.
the Russian army also did not exercise any attempt at control over the behavior of individual soldiers. On the eve of the Russian attack on Berlin in WW II Marshal Zhukov issued this order to his troop:
"Kill!! No man, woman, or unborn child is innocent of the deeds done to us in Russia. Berlin and everything in it is yours for the Taking. Kill!!!"
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Feel free to reply to any comment by clicking the "Reply" button.Their tactics have always been about throwing massive waves of bodies at opponents trying to overwhelm them. When their first attempt bogs down they keep throwing away the lives of poorly trained soldiers in hopes that the enemy will give up before they are forced to surrender themselves. This goes back hundreds of years to the the royals using conscript troops Instead of a fully trained and professional army. Even with their long record of failure against smaller weaker appearing countries like Japan and Finland they still maintained a unearned reputation as an "invincible giant" even though their tactics have always been rigid and inflexible suitable only for warfare during the era of matchlock musketry and pikes.
While other countries have progressed in tactics Russia never has it still depends on large conscripted armies of poorly trained and poorly equipped soldiers commanded by corrupt political appointees who between wars steal whatever they can lay their hands on to sell to the highest bidders so they can live lives of luxury.
Lizard_of_Ahaz
Level 9
Mar 31, 2022
2
@wordywalt When Russians were killing Germans in WWII, they were killing for the better good, and they certainly were provoked. War involves killing people. Young Russian soldiers are getting killed en masse. That's not good. Innocent Ukraine civilians are getting murdered. That's not good either.
barjoe
Level 9
Mar 30, 2022
3
And your country planned it all for 20+ years Joe.
@FrayedBear bullshit
@barjoe Three things stopped the Germans in WW2 and two of those were the same things that stopped Napoleon's army.... Bad weather and attrition with a crumbling supply line stopped both armies but if the US had not supplied the Russians with arms and material support the Nazis would still have beat them long before the pressure allied troops caused the Nazis to pull back in order to shore up their defensive lines in Europe.
@Lizard_of_Ahaz Not completely sure about that. Russia did the heavy lifting.
@barjoe Maybe you should read more history?....
@Lizard_of_Ahaz But for the Russians there would have been no Normandy landings or if they had occurred it would have been a bloodbath for the allies.
@FrayedBear It was a bloodbath of American lives.
@FrayedBear Another unfounded mouth belch. Maybe one day you'll say something correct..... maybe.
@Lizard_of_Ahaz Maybe you can cite the history you thnk you know. @Barjoe seem much more correct than you.
@FrayedBear Sorry the Normandy landings were a bloodbath and troops were pulled off the Russian front by the Nazis to repel the expected attack. The only reason it did succeed was the disinformation strategy used by the Allies that led them to believe that Patton would be in charge of the landings in a different p[art of France instead of Normandy and led by Eisenhower himself. Even the date was moved up at the last minute due to weather and was likely the only reason the landings were as successful as they were.
@FrayedBear, @Alienbeing This from a guy who has always proven he knows little or nothing about history or any other subject amuses me.... I have probably forgotten more real history than either of you ever learned....
@Lizard_of_Ahaz you've been reading or taught US spin doctoring again.
I love the fact that the most quoted link in the search, Encyclopedia Britannica, proclaims that 210,000 Americans went missing - aka AWOL?
Less than 160,000 troops of all nations landed in Normandy.
[britannica.com]
And as for the "sacrifice" made by Americans you only just make it into the top 20 nations of the world!
@FrayedBear You need to lay off the meth guy.... Harbin unit 731 was covered up by the US government because MacArthur wanted the chemical warfare data they had worked on despite the fact that they had used American and British POWs as "logs" in their experiments dissecting them while they were still alive without anesthesia... Those in charge later because the Japanese Green cross....
@Lizard_of_Ahaz Any time, any time at all I will prove I know history and you do nothing except provide r4visionist history. PROOF of this is you resort to bragging about your "knowledge" verses proving you actually have some.
Now how about citing the history you think you know to prove you aren't just spouting off.
@Alienbeing Sure you do.... I bet you learned it all reading books written by morons like David Barton or some Fox "news" commentator.... Like Rush Limpdick the guy who dodged the draft saying he had an inoperable ingrown hair in his ass crack.... After he flunked out of college that is....
@Alienbeing Funny you should use that term in this post thread.....
Who coined the term historical revisionism?
In fact the word “revisionist” became fashionable at the end of the 19th century as an insult used by Lenin (1870-1924), when calling the socialist reformer Eduard Bernstein (1850-1932) a traitor.
Of course these days it is used by Republicans to insult those who use historical facts instead of the McCarthy era garbage they teach you in elementary and high school.... You know what I am talking about the "feel good" fake history that paints the founding fathers as demigods instead of human beings who in many cases were less than nice people.....
@Lizard_of_Ahaz Actually I always disliked Limbaugh, and unlike Limbaugh and probably yourself, I did graduate college, where took many history courses because I liked the subject.
Perhaps you can illustrate your "knowledge" of history some day.
@Lizard_of_Ahaz The you say "I know" then proceed to make assumptions, you prove yourself to be nothing except a loud mouth.
Please keep on with your self congratulations; after all you need support from someone.
@barjoe, @Lizard_of_ahaz, @alienbeing, @Wordywalt
Please refresh your memories or learn about the magnitude & significance of the "bloodbath" experienced by a few Americans in Normandy -
Operation Bagration
[en.m.wikipedia.org]
Now there was something like a bloodbath.
But look at the world history list of bloodbaths & truly see where Normandy fits in.
Thanks to the Lizard for identifying what I suspected on reading of Harbin 731. The world now knows that USA interests continue this research around the world conveniently hiding it in Wuhan, Ukraine, African countries & other places basically using information stolen from others like the Germans & Japanese.
@FrayedBear More of your useless "someone else did it previously" nonsense.
That Walt was a time when white Americans were saying "Nigger, know your place. You're not allowed in white bars, you're not allowed to vote, you're not allowed to sit with white children on the bus."
A time when just for the hell of it American led bombing created firestorms in Tokyo, Hamburg, Dresden killing hundreds of thousands of civilian men, women & children.
A time when atomic bombs destroyed Hiroshima & Nagasaki deliberately murdering hundreds of thousands of civilians.
What did those black people and foreign civilians do to merit such behaviour from you uncivilised barbaric Americans? Had they invaded America killing 30 million of you as Germany did of Russia? No.
Has American behaviour toward Russia since WWII allowed Russia to economically & educationally progress or been designed to work against the best interests of those people? No.
Has pouring billions of dollars of weaponry & military training into Ukraine lifted the standard of living of Ukrainians & Russians alike? No.
Do these photographs show Ukraine to be a country that under American promulgated fascism since 2014 has raised the standard of living of its citizens? No.
I suggest Walt that whilst you in America have had obscene wealth since WWII, wealth mainly stolen from other countries, the US has kept the rest of the world in poverty.
FrayedBear
Level 9
Mar 30, 2022
4
Blame America for everything.
You are consistent. You always chyange the subject rather than address the issue; and you always go out of your way to deprecate the USA>
@wordywalt As you wish Walt but you cannot deny the truth in what I say.
I merely contextualise your accusation.
@FrayedBear Funny but the UK was the same way once and still is in many places even the ones no longer under their control....
Also if you really want to talk about the murder of civilians please remember that at least the cities you name were industrial and strategic targets not civilians taken at random or by other criteria like race, religion, disability or political beliefs like the Nazis and Japanese did then used for slave labor of medical experiments and where there was a surplus or inability to be "useful" just plain "liquidated" for the sake of "efficiency." You might want to look up "Harbin 731" for some of the many atrocities committed by the Japanese.... Keep in mind that some of the slaves take by the Japanese were women to be used in brothels as slaves until they lost their looks after being beaten and starved and were then liquidated.
@Lizard_of_Ahaz you do not need to tell me of Japanese atrocity - I had an uncle by marriage who was blind thanks to Japanese WWII treatment. He escaped twice from Changi & was then sent to the Hiroshima mines. He was there when the bomb dropped.
And why was he in Changi? There's the English strategy & there's the Australian "the bastards abandoned us colonials" attitude when writing history.
He was a lovely guy until you mentioned Toyota, Mitsubishi, saki or rice.
@barjoe no, actually many of us blame the transnational ruling class that own America. Who also own the 6 major MSCMs and our politicians that feed the perception management campaign agenda on westernized societies. And from the looks of most of the replies here, and especially the initial poster, they've managed to herd the majority of you into a delusional reality. The lack of knowledge and history here is profoundly sickening. It's embarrassing to the human race. Quite frankly, if it wasn't for the Russian's many more could have been killed during WWll, who lost 27 million people in that war alone.
Russia is currently fighting the same fascist elements today in Ukraine that they fought in WWll who played a large role in those 27 million deaths. And just as we should be highly thankful for their contribution during WWll, we should be thankful they have finally taken the steps to end a 8 year long genocide campaign that was being waged on the people in the Donbas region in Ukraine by the same fascist elements of WWll. In which the government of Ukraine and a fair portion of citizens in the west still today glorify those from the WWll era, along with the fascist ideology that goes with them.
When they are done these fascist elements, that our western governments and dozens of various transnational think tanks funded and supported, are going to be spreading out across the globe to seek places to avoid the crimes they've been committing over those 8 years. The US is most likely going to welcome them along with the 100,000 immigrants they've already agreed to. They'll be coming here to join the likes of Trump supporters who not long ago were going there to train under them. In which those think tanks funding helped to train fascist on how to fight in protest which eventually lead to the violence at Maidan in 2014.
Now, add these tactics to the Jan 6th capital hill incident. We now have the potential of a much worse scenario in the making going worldwide. The next round of a fascist attempting to be president in the US, or governor of a state, is possibly going to be much worse than protest that were going on as Trump ran for office. This is the door our government has opened by overthrowing a democratically elected president in Ukraine, funding and supporting the fascist there, who were hell bent of ridding the country of the Russian speaking people in the east. Next stop may be your city.
@William_Mary Russia IS the fascist element. You are misinformed and you subscribe to Pravda. Russia installed a puppet regime that was overthrown in 2014. Then they used that as an excuse to invade Crimea. Today they are hoping to create a buffer in all of Eastern Europe to keep the cold war going with NATO.
@barjoe ffs Joe stick to discussing the weather or NY Yankees or your favourite sports team but please don't regurgitate the crap that you have been fed all your life.
In comparison to William_Mary I'm but an infantile sceptic but even I can understand their evidence, logic & truth most of the time. The other times I'm just not "adulting today".
While Dresden, fire bombing various Japanese cities and A-bombs dropped on Japan may be considered excessive or even war crimes today, those actions were not considered such at the time. However, what my real question is, which one of those actions harmed the black people you referred to?
@Alienbeing probably all because they continued to distract attention from the discriminations & harm being done to black people by white assumed superiority & claimed right to perpetrate such crimes. A fact still occurring today.
@barjoe you think that I should listen to Voice of America & Voice of Asia both known tools of the CIA? Or perhaps you would have me listen to the proselytising shit broadcast by American evangelists who have taken over Australian Community Radio & surrounded the country bombarding us with their nonsense?
@Alienbeing, @barjoe Whilst I have your attention & before I go back to sleep please do me a favour & find for me & everyone US media research identifying how the 13.5 billions of aid (in other words 10% of the Ukrainian estimated GDP for 2021) to Ukraine has been spent, when was it spent, how much is humanitarian aid vs. weaponry, how much is to pay for a proxy war by America against a country that it supposedly is not at war with through the use of what are now technically US mercenaries?
@barjoe you're so contradictory. You've allowed MSCM to draw you into a delusional reality, and now you're dismissing their own current reporting of fascist elements being in Ukraine, and their army, because it goes against their first managed perception? You're so confused you can't even see when the wheels are falling off the first false narratives they started with. It's ok though. As with Iraq where many ended up eating the shit they were fed before they realized they were eating shit, you'll be eating it again. Time AND history are on my side. But how will you handle it when it comes back around on you is the question. Will you finally become awaken or continue to be a road bump to social progress.
@FrayedBear There is NO American proxy war. There is a war started by Russia when they invaded Ukraine.
Now that you know the FACT, you can go back to sleep.
@William_Mary, @Barjoe William_Mary ignores the sole pertinent fact that Russia invaded Ukraine. A messy fact tor apologists.
@FrayedBear Change subjects much? The original post was discussing Russia and their military tactics. For some reason you want to discuss the treatment oif blacks in the US.
Hey Frayed, prejudice is alive and well here, and probably in your country also. Now try to stick to the subject.
@Alienbeing It could be a false flag. Russia Could use this as an excuse to justify an escalation of the war or make Ukraine appear to be the aggressor.
@William_Mary What the fuck is MSCN?
@barjoe you're so far down their rabbit hole that just like you forgot history, if you ever understood it at all, you don't know acronyms that have been used for decades. The apparent ignorance is embarrassing to the human race. And a slap in the face to those who fought against fascism during WWl and WWll. If it isn't ignorance then it's a matter of purposefully supporting fascism within deception. Which begs the question if your presence here is to discourage others from discovery of the issues that have been held from them over the past 8 years. As I said above. The wheels are coming off more each day to the crimes Biden and his son along with the entire core of DC orchestrated in Ukraine. Eventually more and more people are slowly going to become aware of how they've been deceived again.
And like me, which I came to long ago on you, more and more people here will remember your comments here and come to the conclusion your either full of shit with a purpose, or don't know shit. Having no hindsight to collectively conform a foresight from reliable information to be a productive part of the conversation. You and the likes of Alienbeing will be looked upon as fools or trolls. You're not worth the time to debate with under these circumstances.
@William_Mary So. What the fuck is MSCM?
@Alienbeing thanks for your useless advice. Have you always been a boring shit?
@Alienbeing no Russia moved troops to protect Russian speakers from genocide being committed by the Ukrainian government & mercenary fascists allowed to operate in the country presidentially led by a clown - I mean failed comedian. If he had been successful at comedy he would have stuck to it.
@Alienbeing what is that expression Americans are so fond of "cognitive dissonance". When & if you grow out of yours alien you may find that the rest of the world sees through your WMD - words of mass deception.
@FrayedBear "Cognitive dissonance" is YOUR favorite expression. I'll remind you that I have challanged you many times to cite such, and you have never cited one instance. You dance all the time, but your bull is so obvious.
Russia invaded, it had no desore or need to "protect" anyone.
You need a new line of bull shit, your old line is boring.
@FrayedBear Alas, I suspect all advice you get is ignored.
@Alienbeing Are you mentioning medical treatment I have not heard of "desore"? Or are you yet again identifying your lack of professionalism or dyslexia?
As for ignoring advice, unlike you, I am discerning as to the advice that I listen to & act upon. To date I have not read anything written by you that would promote you to my list of trusted & respected advisors.
@FrayedBear To AGAIN help you read over an obvious typo, it was supposed to be "desire".
When one has no fact one must resort to meaningless replies. Now that I helped your little mind, Perhaps you understand.
Last, I would not eve attempt to "advise" you. You obviously can't understand history, so it would be a lost cause.
Vodka helps them forget the atrocities they perform.
Lorajay
Level 9
Mar 30, 2022
1
And what helps American soldiers who are just as violent in battle?
@rogerbenham, you are right.Demons stalk all veterans of the killing wars. America has many homeless drug and alcohol addicted vets to prove that.
@rogerbenham War is violent, but what American actions do you refer to?
@Alienbeing I see little point in answering you since you clearly doubt the truth. Sorry. Mi Lai? Afghanistan helicopter?
@rogerbenham You see little point because you only have little points. Yes Mi Lai was a war crime, I don't know what you mean by "Afghanistan helicopter" so I can't respond to it.
HOWEVER the fact you avoid is we prosecute war crimes and no senior command staff of ours ever orders war crimes.
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