A while ago, I asked the following question and got an informative answer from a person who lives in Denmark. Interesting. It takes a loooong time to establish a secular society in the true sense.
Q: According to this link: [worldpopulationreview.com], the Nordic countries are predominantly Christian. For instance, the official religion of Denmark, as stated in the Danish Constitution, is Evangelical Lutheran. What are the key factors that enable these countries to demonstrate secularism so well?
A: For Denmark at least, the Church and State isn’t separated, but the Church does not have a say in politics. And it officially hasn’t since 1536.
Prior to 1536, the Danish Church had High power in the running of the country and even had a say in who became the next monarch, when the old died. What changed then in 1536? It’s a bid of a long story, but the short answer is: We became Protestants.
There have been Kings since who were influenced by the Church, but they held no seat in Government. After we became a democracy in 1849, we also became a society that supported religious freedom. The same Constitution we Got in 1849, to this day still says, however, that the State religion is the Evangelic Lutheran Church. This means that the State supports the Church and the policies, rules and regulations held up in the Church of Denmark, is decided by the Danish politicians. Any priests that might sit in Parliament (yes there actually have been some) are democratically elected like all the other members of Parliament and they still have to follow what the majority of the Parliament decides for the Church. Any other religion that is active in Denmark has to be approved by the authorities and follow Danish laws, but survives on their own donations and other sources of income.
To the extent that Denmark is a secular country (how can it be, really, if it has an official State religion?), that probably has more to do with their particular religious sect (Lutheranism) being fairly moderate in its credos (as compared with American style Evangelical Christianity).
@Triphid What's your point? Or is this just another in a series of baseless ad hominem attacks?
@Flyingsaucesir No not attacking as per your assessment/opinion, merely expressing MY OWN opinion in regards to your vanity, etc, etc, as per what I perceive you self-righteous arrogance.
Perhaps it may serve you well should you TRY to remember the old adage of, "If you cannot handle then, then it is BEST to stay out of the Kitchen."
@Triphid So quoting dictionary entries is just window dressing? You have no point beyond railing against my supposed arrogance? That, my friend, makes it ad hominem. But thanks for sharing!
@Flyingsaucesir No being able read, write and cite the true and actual MEANINGS of words, etc, shows that one has been EDUCATED and KNOWS how to use it.
Nothing kills religion though as quickly as making it an arm of state. When you do that, you deprive it of its free alternate voice, and you make it, in part, responsible for every failing of government. Religion dies under state ownership. If you look, all the most secular countries in the developed world, (Third world may be different.) have state chuches. Whereas in the USA, where you have separation and in Russia where for many years they tried to ban religion, the churches thrive.
I shall dig a little deeper. I find it intriguing that the Nordic countries are the world's most secular countries despite the fact that they are predominantly Christian.
@Flyingsaucesir Yes but they are not all that fond of their churches, and would you really want to go to the IRS office for a Sunday social ? LOL
@Flyingsaucesir, @PapPap I believe that the Nordic governments are the least corrupt in the world. I saw a survey indicating that somewhere. See if I can find it.
Weird. Such a secular society, but the government still supports a preferred religion. But the US constitution states a lot of ideals that we fail miserably at.
I think you may well find that as with most Western Governments embedded into them is the often strongly vociferous element that will pester and annoy the Politicians/Political Parties, until they can exert their influences as they have do so for centuries previous.
It is my well consider opinion that, Should Human kind EVERY wish to TRULY break completely of the Yoke of Religion first it needs to break completely the shackles that religion has around and on human kind and human government for once and for all.
Considering where we started, with slavery common throughout the colonies, we have come far. Far enough? Of course not. But progress, though halting and jerky, continues to be made. Will we ever achieve true greatness? Who knows? Climate change, along war spawned by conflict over dwindling resources, could very well end human civilization in the next century or two. But we still have to try. It's still worth trying.
Perhaps Oh High and Sagacious One may wish to occasionally remove his "shades" thus opening his eyes and actually reading the dictionary definitions re- secular, after all it may save the Californian Messiah from having to contend with so cases of human "Foot in Mouth" syndrome.
For example, SECULAR-
DEf.1) - NOT connected or of Religious or Spiritual matters ( the definition that applies, for the most, to this site and some of its groups,
Def. 2) -re Christian Church and Church Clerics i,e, Priests, Ministers, etc, etc, NOT bound to or subject to any specific/defined religious Order/s, etc, etc, not a member/part of a monastery, etc, etc.
See, Oh Great, Wise and eternally vociferous One we peasant who refrain from wearing sunglasses (aka shades) have actually learned a whole by doing so.