@Julie808 I am so sorry all this has happened to you and I think I understand why you did things your way, but I cannot feel your pain. I was speaking as much to your mother and fiancee as to you. I was just saying that it was ,is and will be always a family problem to those six people and having sorted out priorities, working together can relieve so much pain.

Thank you for telling YOUR story.

You did not say whether you have conceived other children so I will never know if your views change with different circumstances e.g grandparenthood.

Thanks so much for sharing your story, sister. An exceptional example of why the decision had to rest with you alone. I wish your mother's approach had been supportive of you and your decision making process. I would have been supportive of you without having an opinion, if I'd known you at the time, as I've been for all women who have come to me for support including religious women who also experience unplanned pregnancies. Your posts are always so eloquent that they are easy to read and understand and you are a valuable contributor to this community.

@Mcflewster I have 2 grown children and 2 grandchildren. My grandchildren were born at a time when they were very much wanted and my daughter and her husband had the means to give them a good life.

If my daughter or my son found themselves in a situation where they didn't feel they could take care of a child and wanted my opinion or help, I would offer it, but they were raised to be very independent and capable of solving their own problems very well, and I would support them with whatever decision they felt was right for them.

That was actually my 2nd/last abortion, because I had also become pregnant when I was raped as teenage virgin, and rather than go into details about how the awful experience occurred, I didn't tell my parents about the pregnancy. All hell would have broke loose in my family, and abortion was the best decision.

My sister-in-law worked at Planned Parenthood at the time, so I asked for her guidance and she helped me immensely. So, my brother likely knew about it. After the procedure, I asked to stay at my big sister's house to recover, without giving her details about how I became pregnant. She had voted against legalizing abortion, and my brother-in-law had voted for legalization, so they had a discussion as to whether I could recuperate at their house or not. My brother-in-law won that discussion and years later actually tried to seduce me while my sister was in the hospital and I was babysitting my nieces. (Wondering yet how I turned out normal? Haha!)

I'm not sure how many other family members knew about my situation, but I would suspect that my mom never knew. None of my siblings would have been that cruel.

We had very strange family dynamics and I would rather have committed suicide or go through a back alley abortion than go through with the pregnancy, and thank goodness abortion had just recently become legal in my state.

If you chose to terminate the pregnancy, that was a choice I hope you made on your own. You shouldn't haven't married that guy. Did you have any brothers? He's lucky I wasn't your brother.

@barjoe Haha, when I went to my mother pregnant and beaten, she sent me back to my husband. Years later my mom said if my brothers knew what my (ex) husband was doing to me, they would take "take care of him" is what she said. Nice sentiment, but so untrue in my family.

One of my brothers did stick up for me once against my incestuous father when he did something inappropriate at the dinner table, and what did he get for it? My dad stabbed him with a fork and then chased him with a chair and I don't know what happened in the other room, but nobody stood up to him again. My mom just sat there eating her dinner, not looking up.

We all like to think we'd have people sticking up for us, but sadly we are often just left on our own.

@Julie808 You are a brave, strong woman, a woman to be admired. Through adversity you learned the importance of support for your own children, the same support that was absent for you.

I want you to know that there are people in this world who make it their business to advocate for those who find themselves alone and I want you to know that it gives me great comfort to have gotten to know your character through your comments on this issue. Thank you very much for that.

@barjoe. No, you are right, it is not my business. It is societies business and unless we all can contribute alternative ideas we will fail again. I thought that was what this forum was about. It is not about brownie points

@Mcflewster It's not a free society's business. If you choose to live in a theocratic autocracy ran by piece of shit Republicans. I would prefer not to. Again. If you're against abortion? Don't fucking get one!

@barjoe " It's not a free society's business" . this is quite a profound statement' I know the decisions are difficult and I too want to give space to think things out properly , but are you willing to stand by that in any discussion? .If you do not reply I shall know your answer is in the affirmative .

@Mcflewster I believe in the right to privacy and society doesn't have a right to tell me what to do, provided I don't hurt another person, physically, emotionally or economically. The more laws like Roe, Laurence and Griswold are repealed, the worse society will be. If Griswold is repealed, abortions will quadruple. If I hadn't replied, it would not have meant dick. It would've merely meant that I was ignoring you.

@Mcflewster It's NOT society's business, it's a personal decision. It's society's problem when there are too many unwanted babies born to mothers who can't care for them. It's society's responsibility that every baby born is wanted and can receive the care they deserve. By not allowing reproductive choices, society keeps women down, which is the the goal of a particular political party.

@Julie808 I have always been with you all the way about your statement" It's society's responsibility that every baby born is wanted and can receive the care they deserve". Once you establish women proper rights then that will not get rid of abortion. My suggestion was a tactic over many years of the future to get to your "every baby" statement.

@Julie808 At The point of conception and pregnancy it is your decision . I am talking about other decisions that will improve society.

You tell him!

@barjoe Have I been told yet ,@ Bargjoe?

Reply to @LovinLarge It was a bad start by me and I have NOT given up.

@Mcflewster You've been chastised repeatedly by the membership for your position, in fact not a single comment on any of your posts has agreed with you. Keep it up and eventually people will just stop responding to any of your posts. Just like you want to use abortion to control women, you're manipulating this forum to try to get favorable responses. In my view, you are of highly questionable character and the only interaction I will have with you is to continue to berate you.

@LovinLarge I now feel the urge to say something kind to you because that is the only way to treat posts like yours. If you want me to analyse your statement just say so . There are too many similar ones on social media. Maybe I just like a hot kitchen. I admit only finding it difficult to get my views across. When I get new evidence I change my mind. Meet me half way?? i.e Find out and be kind is my motto. I have tried to know a new way forward AND be kind to you. I am quite prepared to give up talking to you but not yet to block you.