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Following discussion elsewhere I have learnt of an American political party hitherto not known to myself. It is the Libertarian Party. Reading their founding policy has left me with a number of opinions. The primary being that it must be comprised of psychopathic narcissists in order to fulfil their goals.

I photographed the opening of the libertarian web page for all to see. []

It states that:"Libertarians strongly oppose any government interference in your personal, family, and business decisions" - so long as you do not harm one another.

There are 2 points immediately obvious -

  1. Without government control regulating people there is anarchy. How can you have family without rules on how they are formed and conducted? Until recently there was no law against rape in marriage & in many parts of the world there still isn't.

  2. Human beings are incapable of individually self regulating because they are inherently narcissistic & hubristic.

Example: The heroin dealer doesn't sell heroin to enable others to have a jolly beneficial time but to make profit only for himself. Whilst doing so he will enjoy the benefit of the state provided street corner & its lighting at night whilst selling his wares without contributing to the cost of constructing & maintenance of that street corner if he can.

As the libertarians seemingly don't care of others having differing opinions from their own they will undoubtedly claim that this is harming them. Without governing laws, checks & controls libertarians will do as they desire to the detriment of all but themselves.

Having done so they will then defend their destructive selfish action with lies, untruths, diversions & more unwholesome stupid activity. Often employing lawyers to do so.

Now let's see who agrees with me and who agrees with you. Please feel free to enhance my learning & understanding in this matter.

Libertarian Party members character & psychological profile.

  • 7 votes
  • 10 votes
FrayedBear 9 July 29

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Again you admit you don't know what you are talking about. You don't even know what political parties there are in the U.S.

By the way, the preferred spelling is "learned", as @pgl4vt pointed out.


@FrayedBear Irrespective of what grammarly may say "learned" is the preferred spelling in the US. As such nothing else matters.

@Alienbeing and the rest of the english speaking world couldn't give a stuff about your "preference".

@FrayedBear I doubt it, but f so, why would we care?

@Alienbeing you & @pgl4vt obviously do. In this instance I couldn't give an "f" as you unambiguously understood what I wrote. Your frequent spelling errors caused through your arrogant laziness frequently prevents comprehension.

@FrayedBear No, nothing either of us said indicates we care. It does indicate we like pointing out your errors.

Rant on.


I was a libertarian until the pandemic hit and I learned (not "learnt" ) that they are the most selfish group of people in existence. I am ashamed to say that I have voted libertarian now. NEVER AGAIN.

Not selfish, rather we deal with reality.


@Alienbeing Reality in that your rights are greater than others health.

@pgl4vt Not at all. In fact I am in favor of Universal Medicare for all.

@FrayedBear In the US "learned" is the preferred spelling. Accordigly it is irrelevant what grammarly may think.

@Alienbeing how often do I have to tell you that you are a very small part of the english speaking world & your hubris is ignored.

@FrayedBear Actually we are not a "very small part" but even if we were, we are the most important part, and that is all that matters.

@Alienbeing important only in your own opinion, ego & hubris.

@FrayedBear No, to Americans, which are the only part of the English speaking population that matters.



My opinions to the 10 questions

1.nonsense 2.Any centroism is very unhealthy and unhappy for independence and individualism. 3.Ron Paul is an honest libertarian, I stand by him. 4. Wouldn't join a club, where everyone was just like me. 5 The life span of the world has doubled since mid 1800s, not a fair or evidence base comparison 6.Anarchist and libertarian are organizations of the family units, dehumanizing women is nonsense. 7. Government Gods , bankers and corporations are the ultimate scum of the earth. Nothing wrong in making lots of money in free trade, just don't harm anyone. It is total dom-in nation is the greatest abuse for humanity. 9. The overly super wealthy corporationism, who are stealing away our money and healthy natural environment. 10. Nothing wrong with capitalism, as free trade. Alternative and natural products have been dealt with by the wealthy, as being mostly pressed to be illegal.


How can you judge a group of political people, who have not been in power yet. We can judge the recently inpower political party. How are they working out , so far?


Interesting discussion re the concept of libertarianism.

I agree with some of the concepts of this philosophy. And was somewhat surprised that by some metrics my home country New Zealand/Aotearoa is ranked as the top libertarian nation in the world.

Here’s the link:


My neighbour across the ditch frayedbear will probably be spluttering gobs of the golden amber in his tinny to discover that Australia is fifth on the list.

Interestingly, the USA is ranked fifteenth! 😹

Can I add that many wealthy so called libertarian Americans own homes in New Zealand. The guy who set up PayPal, Peter Thiel comes to mind. Why is that, I wonder?

We never talk about the concept of Libertarianism in NZ. Maybe that’s a cultural thing.

Just a reminder. Our borders are finally open again to non NZ citizens after more than two years. And we’re welcoming visitors, no matter what their beliefs are, back to Aotearoa. Hope you can make it.

True libertarians would have totally open borders in the area of land under this regime, right? And anyone would be free to live there. Well, that’s my understanding anyway. Interested to have your opinion on that one.


Every so- called Libertarian I've ever encountered I have asked what exactly it means to be one.

I never get a straight answer. They don't know themselves. They hum and hah around at the question. They like calling themselves Libertarians because it sounds cool. To me it's just Conservatism Light, and nothing more. I've long since ignored the term as yet another American fantasy -- added to the queue.

Thanks David.


. . . questions for libertarians : 😛



Now Mister Fly, I think you already know that Salon is not exactly the most reliable source out there and thus should not be taken too seriously-

Here is a source that's rated as more factually reliable-

As for the other link, I read that as being satire.

As time allows me, I plan to do a post that would answer all of those questions put forth by that Salon writer. On a side note, generally speaking, those these days who self-identify as being fiscally conservative while being socially liberal are pretty much Libertarians, even if they don't actively realize such. That said, do you know of anyone who mentioned in their profile bio about being fiscally conservative and socially liberal (besides me of course)? I do, but for the life of me now I just can't remember the name(s), darn it!


So, you think fiscal responsibility and social liberalism equates to lunacy and narcissism? If so, I'd have to disagree.

Governmental laws/rules have been ineffective, despite laws against rape and murder for example there have and continues to be far too many cases of such, which must beg the question just how useful are the laws and Government in the first place? Also, anarchy might not be as bad as some make it out to be, and is more in line with the natural order of things (aka, nature).

Humans aren't capable of self-regulating? Governmental regulations sure haven't solved the problems for the most part, and how do you know for certain a voluntary society would not work when such a concept has yet to be fully instituted anywhere in the world? That mentality unto itself could be considered narcissistic, believing humans aren't capable of running their own lives, albeit also a rather fascist stance.

When human beings are free to make their own choices on matters, sometimes someone may seek to take advantage of another individual, but that still doesn't remove the fact that the drug scenario you proposed above would constitute a voluntary/consensual exchange, and again anything less than a consensual agreement would be authoritarian in nature.

The Libertarians I know are hardly selfish and don't seek to engage in any activities that could directly negatively impact another, and give quite a bit to charity. For example and a little known fact about myself, when I was younger I worked a side gig as an erotic male performer at local hen parties, and gave alot of my tip money to charities that benefitted breast cancer research and victims of domestic abuse. Would you call my acts selfish?

I could go on, but somehow I suspect your mind is already made up on the matter, and nothing I could say would change your mind otherwise. You are convinced we Libertarians are evil selfish psychos, which you are entitled to such opinions of course, but you would be wrong about that. Pay close attention to any comments on this post that would align with yours, noting how hateful cynical and vengeful such comments are in nature, and perhaps you'll realize that those who hate on the Libertarians are the real ones who are selfish and narcissistic psychopaths. Both the progressive types and conservatives are like that by the way.

In closing, while you contend humanity cannot succeed without Governmental regulations (in other words, the Government instructing people on how to run their lives), I contend those who feel that way just might be morons and not even realize they are such, as it truly doesn't get much more moronic than feeling a need to be dictated to and told how to live your life by... wait for it... other human beings who happen to work for your local governing body. Do you see how stupid that is, complaining about those who question Government authority and think humans are not capable of controlling their own lives while thinking that "special" human beings who work in Government have all the solutions? Only the special humans working for Government can help all of humanity, and those who just want to live their lives in peace are just narcissistic no-goodniks (insert sarcasm). Please note my restraint on how throughout history Governments have/had a way of habitually violating human rights, which could further validate my take on the matter. Such violations have recently occured here in the US, certain individuals in positions of Governmental power have made a move to seriously limit a woman's right to an abortion/bodily autonomy, and I'm sure more violations from Governmental authorities is coming in due course.

Thank you for your extensive insights into being a Libertarian.
Isn't your opinion "I suspect your mind is already made up on the matter" simply breaking the Libertarian rule in that you are basically saying that I'm not allowed an opinion different to yours?
And one last question Spike. What is your opinion on Julian Assange? Should he be driven to his death as he is being by the US government's of both major political parties because he's had the audacity to publish evidence of various government's war crimes?

@FrayedBear You are certainly entitled to your opinion on the matter, all I'm saying is that if you truly believe that all Libertarians are selfish and psychotic, your opinions may be misguided.

As for Assange, I think he should go free, as there was nothing technically criminal about divulging such intel. The US Government is indeed corrupt, and most of my fellow Libertarians would readily agree on that.

@SpikeTalon I'm very pleased to hear it. Hopefully you will challenge everyone you know with something similar to what I am trying to confront many with:
"IMO every Australian should be ashamed that a fellow Australian has been let down by the Federal Government & is treated like this. Equally every American & Brit who has allowed their governments to perpetrate these crimes should be ashamed that they have done & said nothing. "

To German nazis the German Lutheran pastor Martin Niemöller (1892–1984) was considered "wrong". He expressed himself & "right" thinking in the following poem (edited). It is about the silence of German intellectuals and certain clergy—including, by his own admission, Niemöller himself—following the Nazis' rise to power and subsequent incremental purging of their chosen targets, group after group. Even in this revised British version it is incomplete in its truth. Omitted are the mentally challenged, the Roma & the Sinti.

First they came for the Communists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Communist

Then they came for the Socialists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Socialist

Then they came for the trade unionists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a trade unionist

Then they came for the Jews
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Jew

Then they came for me
And there was no one left
To speak out for me
Martin Niemöller

A casual read of frayedbear's postings will clearly illustrate that he is against anything coming from the USA and totally in favor of anything coming out of Russia. As such he is very much irrelevant.


libertarians think their policies will work but the are not sustainable. No political philosophy that I know of is sustainable without changing their philosophy as it develops.


If you look up politician in the dictionary
"psychopathic narcissists"
Is the first definition

Thanks Len. I wasn't aware of that. Not all political party members however become parliamentarians.

Which dictionary did you use? []

Your reply reminds me of Australia 's only female PM accused of being a liar. At the time of her denial & now I continue to state that lying is a prerequisite of any politician.


How do you know, if a politician is lying?

A. When he opens his mouth.


That's going too far, they're just immature and oblivious

There may not be the letters I in team.

There is an I for individualism, independence and immune.

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