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LINK 6 killed in shooting at Hamburg, Germany, Jehovah's Witness hall, including an unborn child, police say -- CBS News

A gunman killed six people Thursday night at a Jehovah's Witnesses hall in the German city of Hamburg before apparently turning his gun on himself. The shooter was identified as a former member of the congregation, police said Friday. Four men, one woman and an unborn child were killed. Police initially said Friday that a pregnant woman had died in the attack, but they later confirmed she was among eight people wounded. Her 7-month-old fetus died.

Shots fired in a parish hall in #GroßBorstel #Alsterdorf led to a major operation yesterday.

According to initial findings, 8 people are seriously injured, 7 fatally, among them one unborn child.

Currently we announce the current state of the investigation at a #pressconference
— Polizei Hamburg (@PolizeiHamburg) March 10, 2023

Police identified the gunman on Friday as unmarried former church member Phillip F., and said there was no indication of a terrorist motive. They said he left the church community about 18 months ago, "but apparently not on good terms."

Police had told CBS News previously that the shooter was inside the building the entire time and there was no manhunt at any point. When officers arrived, the shooter had already died by suicide.

The police did not give any indication of a suspected motive as they briefed journalists Friday morning about the shooting that stunned Germany's second-biggest city.

German magazine Der Spiegel first reported that the suspect was "said to have been a former member of Jehovah's Witnesses... between 30 and 40 years old."

Police confirmed Friday that the gunman used a semi-automatic pistol that he was licensed to own. They said there was an anonymous letter sent to the police force several years ago claiming the suspect was mentally unstable and had shown animosity for religious followers, and that a review of his firearms licensing was carried out.

They said when questioned, Phillip F. was cooperative and gave no indication of any mental health problems, so they closed the case. He was a sports marksman.

Mass shootings are rare in Europe, where gun ownership laws are generally much stricter than in many U.S. states. There is a long and strict process in Germany to obtain a permit for a handgun.

German Chancellor Olaf Scholz, a former Hamburg mayor, described the shooting as "a brutal act of violence."

Investigators worked through the night to secure evidence. On Friday morning, forensic investigators in protective white suits could still be seen outside the building as a light snow fell. Officers placed yellow cones on the ground and windowsills to mark evidence.

David Semonian, a U.S.-based spokesman for Jehovah's Witnesses, told The Associated Press in an emailed statement early Friday that members "worldwide grieve for the victims of this traumatic event."

"The congregation elders in the local area are providing pastoral care for those affected by the event," he wrote. "We understand that the authorities are still investigating the details of this crime. We appreciate the courageous help provided by the police and emergency services."

Hamburg Mayor Peter Tschentscher tweeted that the news was "shocking" and offered his sympathy to the victims' relatives.

The scene of the shooting was the Jehovah's Witnesses' Kingdom Hall, a modern and boxy three-story building next to an auto repair shop.

Police spokesman Holger Vehren said police were alerted to the shooting about 9:15 p.m. and were on the scene quickly. On Friday morning, police confirmed they had received almost 50 emergency calls about the shooting.

Vehren said after officers arrived and found people with apparent gunshot wounds on the ground floor, they heard a shot from an upper floor and found a fatally wounded person upstairs who they suspected was a shooter. He said police did not have to use their firearms.

Student Laura Bauch, who lives nearby, said "there were about four periods of shooting," German news agency dpa reported. "There were always several shots in these periods, roughly at intervals of 20 seconds to a minute," she said.

Jehovah's Witnesses are part of an international church, founded in the United States in the 19th century and headquartered in Warwick, New York. It claims a worldwide membership of about 8.7 million, with about 170,000 in Germany.

Members are known for their evangelistic efforts that include knocking on doors and distributing literature in public squares. The denomination's distinctive practices include a refusal to bear arms, receive blood transfusions, salute a national flag or participate in secular government.

snytiger6 9 Mar 10
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jUST AS I made plans to go back home because America is treating me badly, this happened. I'll go hide in the bushes. There are more here thANan in the old country

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I feel that the only good JW is a dead one. The unborn should have zero legitimacy so that's no big deal.

I hate when they are listed that way. It only gives credence to the anti-abortion crowd who start yelling that if they are considered as a victim in a murder case, they should be considered viable humans from conception for abortion purposes. In cases like this where the female survived, the loss of a fetus should be considered in the same vein as the loss of a limb. It was a part of the mother that was taken away.

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Of course the big difference is that mass shootings in Germany are rare. In the US they occur generally several times a week across the country. Individual shootings of one or two people are a daily occurrence in most any city of a population or more than fifty thousand. In my area, Lancaster, York, Reading, Lebanon, Harrisburg, few days go by that someone is not killed in a shootout in each city.

The average mass shooting numbers in the U.S. is now more than once a day.

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Isn't that curious... a country with some strict gun control laws in place and yet look what happened. Saying such incidents are a rarity would be to overlook the reality that if it happened once common sense should dictate that it could happen again. A shame, but then again I suspect too many people put too much trust in the laws to always protect them.

Well in countries which have strict gun laws mass shootings are rare. However, in the U.S. where it is easy to get guns, we now average more than one mass shooting every day. Granted gun laws can't stop every mass shooting, but it does make it harder to get the guns make makes mass shooting events much more rare. In the U.S. it has become a "normal" event anymore.

@snytiger6 That depends on the source one goes by for the information, and according to the neutral and reliable source Statista so far this year there has been technically 13 mass shootings, a far cry from what some of the gun control advocates would have us believe. Those mass shootings you were alluding to above that seemingly occur on a daily basis, as actually random shootings that see less than four deaths and thankully alot of times no actual fatalities at all. I'm going by the Government metric by the way in determining what constitutes a mass shooting and not from sources like the Gun Violence Archive which is a rather slanted special interest group that tends to promote excess fear and paranoia on that subject. It appears the worst mass shooting so far this year occured in California, which has some of the most restrictive gun control laws on the books.

When comparing with other countries, also have to keep in mind that alot of them are not dealing with high levels of depression substance abuse and mental illness like our country is, which in turn continues to factor into the random acts of violence that are becoming more common. Per day across the country there are many attacks across the country using other weapons like clubs and knives, yet for curious reasons we don't seem to keep track of those violent acts like we do when guns are involved. Nevermind the fact that with today's technological advances it's far easier for one to craft their own 3D-printed weapons if they have access to the right tools, and books such as the Anarchist Cookbook that are widely available on the Net that instructs people how to make homemade weapons. That, and how relatively easy it is for street gangs to lift weapons from cop cars or local Guard bases, which a number of years ago I knew a few guys who used to do just that. In the end, you can make laws designed to curb random acts of violence committed with firearms, but the criminal element doesn't have much regard for said laws though, and the criminal element along with the rising numbers of cases of mental illnesses has proven to be a bad combination for our country.

@SpikeTalon Violence is violence. Four or more people shot, is by definition a mass shooting. It doesn't matter why four people got shot, it only matters that they were shot, when categorizing a mass shooting.

Mass shootings has a direct correlation to the number of available guns, but also has to do with the culture of the country.

You have chosen your position and parse the facts to fit that position, which seems pretty evident in/by your response.

I on the other hand started my adult life as a conservative republican, but with an open mind. As time went on, I found the actual facts did not suport my viewpoint, so I changed my viewpoint(s).

When it came to guns, I was taught young to respect the harm they can do. I went through gun safety course when i was young, and I have never strayed from what i was taught, ironically from NRA courses. I defined manhood by my character, not the size of an owned firearm, and never felt the nee to own a firearm. Not even after having fun pointed at me.

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Former member, no surprise there.
I just looked - in 2017 the German government granted the JWs higher religious status. Before that, they weren't recognized as a legitimate religion. I knew they hadn't been. I didn't know the Germans gave in. Pretty sure Scientology still isn't recognized there.

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