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What happened to the common good ?

I'm currently reading François Flahault's book "Où est passé le bien commun?" (What happened to the common good?).
What do you think about this concept?
Does something like a common good even exist, or is this just a mirage?
Is it something apart, in itself, on the societal level? Or is it nothing but the sum of the individual goods people are striving for?

(By common good I do not mean 'public goods' like clean air, potable water, roads....)

Thibaud70 7 Mar 16
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2

Common good could be a synonym for socialism ie a "safety net" where no-one falls below but if able, you may get ahead in a Capitalist/ market economy. It follows the logic of a chain is only as strong as its weakest link, where society is the chain with the weakest link being the most disadvantaged and how society treats them.
I think to create "common good" you really need socialist policies like benefits for disabled/ unemployed etc.
Unfortunately, socialism is a dirty word in some parts of the world so if you propose "common good" policy you are shouted down as a commie socialist.

puff Level 8 Mar 17, 2023

You're right. But where I live (France), educated people do know the difference between "socialist" and "communist", and it is generally nothing to be ashamed of to be called a socialist. A former President (the one before Macron) was a socialist, and so am I

@Thibaud70 Australia is the same.

4

Seeking and promoting the Common Good has some requirement for respecting the beliefs of others. Putin/Trump/Evangelicals have chosen hatred over tolerance, so common good goes out the window.

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if you lived in a cave amidst hostile nature, and were seen as easy prey by pretty much everything around you, you Would get the concept, and quickly....it's how we survived.

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You give examples of what you’re not talking about (air, water, roads, etc.). Can you give an example of what you are talking about? I’m not sure I understand the distinction. Thanks.

skado Level 9 Mar 16, 2023

My favorite example is what social scientists call "social capital", a shared trust among members of a society, hard to measure, but intuitively plausibel if you compare dysfunctiolnal societies, where people do not trust each other with highly functional societies where interactions run smoothly, because citizens share a sense of "we" that allows them to treat each other which respect
[en.wikipedia.org]

Other examples would be functional institutions, a rule of law, a welfare state which prevents poverty... anything where the benefit does not accrue directly to individuals but to a society or the community as such, but indirectly to members of these groups.

6

Living in a decent society is supposed to be about making small concessions for the common good such as taxes, vaccinations, equality, and decency. But too many people are greedy, bigoted, and only concerned about their own rights and freedoms.

So, yes, some common good still exists but its under attack and may not survive.

I'm not sure what vaccination means to you, but I chose on behalf of my kids to get childhood vaccinations to protect them, not anybody else. Vaccination protects the individual above all else.
The fact that vaccines provide immunity to the individual means that individual cannot act as a vector and pass it on, thus creating a "common good". But the intention of vaccination first and foremost is to protect the individual, with any common good benefits flowing on from that.
Thank goodness and I didn't have to decide regarding covid vaccines and my kids. Sure, I would not have subjected my kids to an unproved vaccine that for them, provided no real benefit ie kids were not dying from covid, never were. But I witnessed the extreme pressure that the state and media put on parents to vaccinate their kids. Not for the kids benefit, but for the "common good". Disgusting politics all round.

So vaccinations are not for the "common good", that is instead a positive byproduct of their wide use. But only if they stop transmission can any claim of "common good" be made, I cannot emphasise that enough. If they do not stop transmission, no common good.
Instead, you take vaccines for purely selfish reasons, to protect yourself #1. Anyways, that's how I looked at it when deciding for my kids. They got their childhood jabs.

@puff Covid is now the eighth most common cause of death in children in the U.S.

And the reason you got vaccinated is irrelevant. It still helps the common good by reducing or eliminating the spread of diseases. Not only are you preventing YOUR kids from getting polio (for example) but also helping to ensure polio is no longer a public threat.

And I think that the world of 2023 versus the world of 2020 is proof enough that the Covid vaccine works.

@Charles1971 " It still helps the common good by reducing or eliminating the spread of diseases".
Obviously I didn't emphasise enough.
"Covid is now the eighth most common cause of death in children in the U.S."
According to the graph here, death from respiratory disease has remained pretty static over the years in children so I call bollocks. Children are not dying from covid.
[nejm.org]

@puff Well, about about this article which seems to support what I said and is also from the NEJM.

[jwatch.org]

5

The concept of common good still exists. The problem is that the right wing igores it.

Yes, though I think that it was always a stronger idea with the left. Though i favour of the rights view, there is some value in the idea that the common good, can be left to take care of itself. But that will become less likely to be valid in today's world, where technology give the individual huge power, both economic and physical to do harm.

Depends on the kind of "right wing". There are conservatives who subscribe to communitarianism
[en.wikipedia.org]
and there is an identitarian "progressive" Left which has abandoned the idea of a common good and favors the exclusive good for certain "identity groups"

@Thibaud70 Aren’t atheists an identity group? Every lawsuit against prayers in schools or public meetings is all about that identity and as such could be characterized as progressive and thus “woke”.

@Scott321 Atheists? If many of say "Being an atheist is an essential aspect of my identity", and if enough of them organize and act like a group, then one could call them an identity group. In France, that's not the case, but I don't know enough about the situation in the US.
But I don't think that atheists are "woke" because wokeness is mostly about race and gender, and about oppression (in history and present)

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