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A question for agnostics

As I see it, You either identify yourself as an athiest, agnostic (unsure) or a beleiver. For the agnostics out there, there are two types of agnostic people from what I can make out. A 'forseable future' agnostic (eg. someone who says that you cannot prove the existence or non existence of God, so being agnostic is the only rational opinion), then there is the 'temporary agnostic', (eg. someone who says I haven't come across enough evidence yet to make a decision either way). which type of agnostic are you and why, and if you identify yourself as agnostic for different reasons please let me know what they are and why. thanks

RobH86 7 Dec 13

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0

Thanks for the comments guys. Very interesting how some people think, and some interesting interpretations. I was wondering myself whether I was an agnostic or an athiest. The only rationalisation I can make is that I am somewhere inbetween, but obviously lean far more towards athiesm.

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I see no evidence for the existence of anything fitting the common definition of 'a god', and furthermore, I see no need. I'm not anti-theist, I dislike the baggage associated with the term 'atheist', and prefer humanist, secularist, skeptic, and freethinker.

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I argue that atheists are agnostic and agnostics are atheists. Atheists cannot "know" that there is no creator god that is in, or is, the universe. We can only say we do not believe there is one (or more) and state our reason for not believing--which, typically, is a lack of evidence for one. And, since agnostics do not actively believe there is a god, they are also without that belief. I suppose some might think it is just as possible that there is one as it is that there is not one--but, they still do not actively believe that one does exist. If they did, they would be a believer of some sort.

I like your reasoning. I would put it in a slightly different way. I don't say that there is definately no god, just that anyone who has ever tried to convince me that god does exist has failed to present me with anything like strong enough evidence, even to cause reasonable doubt

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I believe the nature of ultimate reality is unkown and unknowable.
Gods or a god is but one possibility of that nature.

anything which is unfalsifyable is unkowable, infact that is the very definition. Iwould argue that anything which is unknowable or unfalsifyable is so rediculously unlikely to be true it is not worth considering as anything like a fact

How does that apply to what I've said? Specifically.

2

I would call myself a spiritual atheist.

I do not subscribe to the belief that there is a divine creator, but I think there is a je ne sais quoi (an I don't know what) that all living beings are capable of sharing. The closest I have been able to label it is empathy. So I do believe in a soul, whether it's in the mind or heart, I do not attempt to distinguish.

4

I am an atheist, an evidentialist, and a rationalist. Now, let's drive the nail home. First, an agnostic is an atheist with reservation. The word 'atheist' is all inclusive, just a bit more certain. An atheist who says, "There is no god," has placed him/herself in the same position as the person who says, "There is a god." This is an important distinction.

I am an atheist, but I will not make the statement that there is no god. Not because I lack spine, but because I'm endowed with a functioning brain. My certainty that there is no god or anything supernatural is 99.9999999...9% Why stop there? Simply because we don't know everything there is to know about everything, and anyone who rounds it up to 100% has, in my estimation, stepped into dangerous territory and can legitimately be considered just as arrogant as believers in a personal god.

One of the more important things we learn in science is to not be so cock sure of anything.

@atheist - Indeed. I treat it as fact as well, but not as 'gospel'. That is to say, it is fine to say that there is no god or any other supernatural being in general conversation, but to make a solid declaration in a public venue is positional suicide. The argument over evidence, though we are armed with considerably more objective evidence 'pointing toward' our assertion, works equally in both directions.

@AMGT - Yes, I agree within the boundaries of rational thought. Where atheist and I differ is in the idea that I think closing that gap is as irrational as the believer's assertion that there is a 'whatever'. I do not agree that a lack of evidence is adequate based upon our limited knowledge. I will say and agree that there 'is no god or any other supernatural entity' when discussing it among folks of like mind, but would never do that with a christian of any stripe because I consider that it places me in the same position as them with regard to evidence to support the assertion and that it does harm to the whole community of free thinkers to one degree or another.

In other words, I am in agreement with atheist on everything except making that assertion in general discourse.

Great answer. I like the point you make about science not being so cock sure. I like the fact that in science, we only consider things to be a scientific fact, if the evidence that supports it is so strong that it becomes pevers to deny it. Love the honesty of the scientific process

2

I choose not to label my subjective ''Godly'' experiences as fact or fiction. Although i have my own experiences which i can openly talk about, I'm aware this is an illusion of some kind.
So i refuse to impose my beliefs based upon my experiences onto another when we all have different angles and perspectives. No Godly experience is subjectively the same.
so i say i am an agnostic out of caution, humbleness, and awareness.

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I'm an atheist.

And say it proudly

3

I don’t identify as atheist, agnostic or believer. Do you believe in X?

skado Level 8 Dec 13, 2017
1

I'm 99.9% sure there is no God.

1% of uncertainty is due to lack of confidence & proof. What type of agnostic that is, I'm not sure?

What I like, is being a free thinker & having discussions with others who are too.

ags2 Level 5 Dec 13, 2017
4

Cool question... I am an agnostic because I didn't surrender myself to be completely negetive about there being a god somewhere out there. Hell ... what do i know anyway. Its just a feeling with nothing to back it up. I'm on the other side of the 50 50 opinion. What confuses me is the vast nothingness that the big bang took place. What put that there? Why did it happen. How did anybody come from molten lava. What caused living organisms to evolve from the poison seas . I'm an unsure agnostic. 1% there could be a god.

Please explain. From what I understand. There was nothing with a big old ball of something in it that exploded.

@kevinjohnston hey there!

Hey Bob, thanks for your answer. Might I suggest Reading Lawrence Krauss's book 'A univers from nothing' (why there is something rather than nothing). You can also watch his lectures on youtube. This a great watch if you care about the evidence which looks at the nature and evolution of our universe. Hope you enjoy

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I guess I came to my conclusion rationally-can't prove existence of a god.to me. Too many religious wars.

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I used to be "temporary agnostic" then I went to "foreseeable future" agnostic finally I just went full atheist.

I'm a full on atheist.

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Written text is very flawed did not think that there was a defining agenda. I use agnostic as I understand it t is a less abrasive word. The original definition of atheism pertains to anyone that is not christian. Agnostic to me better defines doubt, doubt of written text doubt of a magical creature that controls every given thing, doubt of the proclaimed demigod. Rejecting control by religious factions. The positive is to inspire free thinking.

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Technically, an agnostic is an atheist. These two words respond to slightly different questions. Knowledge vs. belief. An agnostic is an individual who claims, the knowledge of the subject of God is unanswerable, but they lack any confidence in the claim. An Atheist is someone who doesn't believe in a God. The distinction is the Atheist isn't addressing an application of knowledge nor are they saying that a God is not possible. It's that they're unconvinced one does.

A dyed-in-the-wool atheist will make the claim that there is no God. Period.

@AMGT - Lol - I hear you. We need clear definition, for sure, as well as a differentiation between belief and knowledge. When I speak of god, I refer to the god of the 3 Abrahamic religions, which IMHO is who most here are referring to. And to declare a believe is (as you know) not a declaration of fact. My understanding of pure (strong) atheism is that the person is making a declaration of fact; that they know there is no God, not just believe, or have an opinion that there is no God. This is what Dawkins calls a strong atheist. Is that what you mean by gnostic atheist?

@Hominid I agree that Atheist sometimes claims knowledge, but the fact is that the word Atheist used in that way is technically improperly applied. @AMGT is entirely correct in her response. That would mean that person is a Gnostic Atheist which unfortunatly is an unsupportable position to take and it switches the burden of proof onto the Gnostic Atheist.

I also think Dawkins muddies the waters.

I am an atheist because I like to have evidence to support the things I believe. I have no understanding of the supernatural in any form and had theists not made the claim that a god(s) exists I would be happy in my ignorance of such an entity - I don't need a god to explain things i don't fully understand, I don't need to invent a magic pixie to explain the gaps in my understanding..

Then in comes the theist and says he has met the being that made the world. Cool I say. Show me. "Oh, you can't see him" OK. What else does he do? "Miracles" OK. So how do we check these are miracles? "You have to believe it in your heart" My heart is a pump. Can you measure what it does? "No" Do you have any testable evidence for this? "No" OK,I don't believe you. I'm an atheist. I find your god not guilty of existing.

Too much more of this kind of stuff and we'll be splitting into sects just like the churches.

1

You cannot prove or disprove the existence of the famed Spaghetti Monster, either. So if you choose to believe in the Spaghetti Monster because no one can disprove its existence, it is no different than "god". Just substitute the word "God" for anything imaginary. Same outcome.

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There is no proof either way. I will not believe in a fantasy so therefore I am agnostic-atheist. 🙂

Betty Level 7 Dec 13, 2017
3

Whether you believe in something or not, does not make it 'exist or not exist' it is just your opinion. That is what I believe.

There is "believing" and "knowing". So I can say "I know there is currently no proof that God exists". Takes it a step further from belief/opinion.

You do not know there is any proof. You assume there is no proof because you haven't seen it. It isn't a step further because you say it is, or because anyone says it is. It is just you giving your opinion. No matter how strongly you feel your belief or knowing, it is you believing or knowing your own opinion. I accept you believing your opinion and it could be...or it could not. That is my belief in your belief....hehe

so you know for a fact that god does or doesn't exist? YOU ARE THE ONE! HE HAS RISEN!!!...haha

4

Definitely not temporary... I think most who have been pulled through the knothole of religion would be the same. Some define atheism as knowing there is no God, but some argue that is a logical fallacy, so many say they are 99.9% atheist... To me that has elements of agnosticism in it.

So, to some people I'll claim to be an atheist. To others. an agnostic. Like I just said in another post, it's all shades of grey, which Richard Dawkin's scale helps demonstrate.

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