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12 9

It is time to put up or shut up

We as Freethinkers are missing an opportunity of a lifetime. Currently there are the MeToo,Black Lives Matters, GMO's,Evangelical Movement but there isn't any Freethinkers movement.
Today there is a protest in front of the White House by the Evangelicals.Where is our response and an opportunity to express our points of view. If I were in better health I would take up the crusade but i cannot travel. However there must be among us someone who could rally the members to have a march on Washington and protests in the fifty states. These attempts to identify us as christians which defiles the Constitution require immediate attention.In addition, we need a platform to present our views more extensively. We must take on the view that we wish to oppress religion. I do not care if you want to believe whatever you want but you are not going to ignore the Constitution and challenge the separation of church and state.

As Freethinkers it is our desire to protect those who cannot protect themselves. We support protecting our environment, all animals and especially all people.Our position supports a free political system of the people not corporations or the top 5% of the population. The USA a democracy(republic) composed of a multitude of political ideas,based upon the Constitution for the service of ALL PEOPLE OF ALL RACES,RELIGIONS AND NON-RELIGIONS.Yesterday there was a call to make the USA an official christian Nation. We are not a christian Nation rather we are a Nation where you are free to practice any religion or be a non-believer of any religion protected by our Constitution. Where is the outcry against such actions.?

With the movements of today it is our opportunity to scuttle the devil worship image of the Freethinkers and promote our true image of believing in science and what it can prove for the benefit of all living things. Your suggestions on how we can start this would be appreciated.

Marine 8 May 24
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4

I have been working on Beto O'Rourke's campaign, he is running against Ted Cruz in November, I feel it's a step in the right direction. We should consider establishing a political party The Freethinkers Party!

I am in Australia, from UK so consequently only see snippets on TV with regard to American internal politics. From my European experience the way forward is certainly through political activity. The minor party pressure groups seems to be the most effective avenue for change. The Greens particularly through decades of consistency have made acres of change to policy, not by being a.major party but by NOT being so. The same can be said for UKIP and the road to Brexit. Good luck with your action.

Like the Greens, in the first instance you will be deemed a joke and ineffectual, a curious novelty but as momentum builds and you gain the ear of about 15% of the population you will be serious players for change. A long road but highly worthy and necessary from what I see as an outsider

1

I have pondered the same issues, and would definitely be interested in getting involved in a freethinkers' movement. I agree, we need to do something to make our collective voice heatd!

1

Well that is a great idea, I'm willing to work with others to try to make this happen, @Marine I,m very open to ideas and planning. I do know that there are Meet-up groups across The U.S. and those groups set up different events. Maybe there is a way to reach out to them,could help in some way. This would also be a great way for some of us to meet and know each one better. So ok lets try.

3

Well said. Hop to it. Let me know where to show up. (the problem in a nutshell)

2

Your comment becomes problematic with: "we must take on the view that we wish to repress religion".

Should theists around the world conflate this meme with atheism, they'll not only dig their heels in deeper but they'll also feel justified in attacking atheism.

A passive, benign and friendly battle using logic will prove the most effective long term strategy.

I disagree. They already attack atheism. Passive does not work. It's time to fight back.

@Sheilap

It's the worst possible response. It will set back atheism by decades and it will reinforce anti atheist propaganda and reinforce theists' belief in their victimhood.

Atheists will be demonised. The only way to win is not to fight.

And I disagree. The reason they are attacking atheism is because it's gaining ground.

They are already at war .

@Ellatynemouth The best response at this point, is to fight the religionists who constantly attempt to impose their will, is in the courts at a grassroots level..

@MrTallman

I suppose language complicates things. I agree about 'fighting' in courtrooms. That's fighting for justice and freedom.

But imagine if the battle between atheism and theism got dirty.

Imagine a situation with parallels to the Isreal-Palestine dynamic only between atheists and theists.

A hypothetical situation:-

Imagine what would happen if an atheist spat at a theist in the street and it was caught on camera - and it went viral. It's not difficult to envisage how the right wing religious media would opportunistically exploit such a thing for all it's worth. It seriously would harm the atheist cause.

@Ellatynemouth The Israel-Palestine conflict is primariarily a real estate war. The Jews took it and the Palestinians want to go home.

@MrTallman

I should have explained... About the dynamic. If a Palestinian throws a rock at an Isreali soldier, three Palestinian children are shot in revenge. That kind of thing.

@Ellatynemouth Now I get it.

There is nothing wrong with starting a political movement for Free thinkers

@kenriley

Completely agree.

5

April 30, 2018
1Jared HuffmanThe Freedom From Religion Foundation is celebrating a major milestone in Congress for secular representation. Several representatives have announced the formation of a Congressional Freethought Caucus that will focus on promoting secular values and will give a voice to freethinking voters.

Thank you for the info. That is just great. I hope they are successful.com/

4

Freedom From Religion Foundation
I am a member and you can be a member too.
[ffrf.org]

I am

Time to join

6

Instead of forming another group, why not send a nice donation to the ACLU? They work tirelessly to keep us free from religious and other non-constitutional strictures, andhave been very successful over many many years/issues. They need support now more than ever!

I have

5

I’ve never thought of protests or marches to be a very effective means for change. I don’t even know what I’d be marching about anyway.

2

I hear you, and share your difficulty traveling. The theists are organized at the grass roots level, and they support people traveling. We are an eclectic group, who are in the process of meeting each other. They brow beat us, and have caused a kind of shyness used to survive. They have had rulers of the Roman Catholic Empire as strong as many monarchs throughout time. But, I think the benefactor of Agnostic has done a great thing. I think we are evolving, and we will become a force. Perhaps the time is now. We do need a good organizer-team leader, but freethinkers may not take to an authoritarian like the sheep and their preachers.

This reluctance to be ruled by someone is something a leader would be required to know as his community could fall apart over night if he didn't.

[ffrf.org]
We fight them in the courts throughout the land.
Freedom From Religion Foundation

4

"As Freethinkers it is our desire to protect those who cannot protect themselves."
I don't think one has to do anything with the other: a misanthrope can be as effective a freethinker as a treehugger as I see it. Not saying a freethinker is one or the other, merely that our "free thoughts" about our responsability towards those that can't protect themselves is not automatically determined by being a free thinker.

"Our position supports a free political system of the people not corporations or the top 5% of the population."
I don't think that there is a freethinker creed that we had to sign to be freethinkers that makes this the case. LIke the above, it doesn't mean that your "free thoughts" led you to that conclusion but many "free thoughts" lead people to another conclusion and that doesn't make them less of a free thinker.

"Where is the outcry against such actions.?"
Not to diminish your desire to be active, because everyone should be free to pursue activism about things they care about, but there is no outcry because so far as much as we are not oppressing religion neither is religion oppressing us. They can call for the US to be a christian nation till you are blue in the face and it will always fail in light of the establishment clause. They can feel like they are being oppressed, repressed, any kind of press but at the end they still have to prove their case to the supreme court if they want major laws changed in light of that oppression (as is the case in the famous current "gay wedding cake" challenge in process right now).

I guess my view is that there just isn't anything really for us, as freethinkers, to get all upset over for, if we are truly committed to free thought, than those that think this nation is christian or being oppressed are entitled to their free thought and the best we can do is simply do our best to not perpetuate the ideas they promote, to live a life and act and speak without seeking to oppress them and thus give them no evidence on which they can hang their beliefs.

Again, I support your call to activisim just don't see that there is a singular free-thinking mindset such that calling all free thinkers to arms would be effective if that makes sense.

Please read my other response. As far as not being suppressed i have a different feeling than you. Requiring we be a christian nation is suppression, adding prayer and teaching religion in public schools in direct opposition to the Constitution is suppression to me.. The use of school vouchers in schools is supression of my tax dollars. Religious scenes on public property I support with tax dollars is suppression of my beliefs. Finally labeling me a devil worshipper is revolting and suppressive to me. My religious believes have nothing at all to do with my politics except when a religious group takes over a political party that wishes to make numerious changes in violation of the Constitution.

@Marine What @TheMiddleWay says sounds like appeasement, especially the next to last paragraph.

@Marine
"Requiring we be a christian nation is suppression, adding prayer and teaching religion in public schools in direct opposition to the Constitution is suppression to me."
They claim the same: that promoting a purely secular government, one where their views as Christians is not allowed to be represented is suppression. I think both viewpoints are wrong in so far as the first amendment allows all beliefs and opinions to be a part of the government as long as the government doesn't promote one belief, secular or religious, above the other. This is evidenced by prayer in school being legal as long as the school doesn't promote one religion, or lack thereof, over the other and that teaching of comparative religions is legal but teaching the bible only is not.

"My religious believes have nothing at all to do with my politics "
And that is your prerogative. But that doesn't mean that it should be everyone elses prerogative nor that being a freethinker automatically means we should follow your perogatives. That is what is great and unique about the USA: all beliefs, all expression, all ideas are free to be expressed and be part of the running and texture of the country.

@bingst

What you call appeasement, I call first amendment rights. 😉

5

Did you really say "It is time to put up or shut up" and "I can't because I can't travel" in the same post?

Yes I did.I have been writing to All Congressmen and women and financially supporting as many Freethinking groups as possible. I am barely able to walk or stand and going to a rally would be almost impossible at this time.So with my condition in mind i am trying to do my best for the movement

@Marine Fair enough, I just don't think you're going to be able to start a movement from the back and I don't think "put up or shut up" is a great slogan when you can't participate. You may want to apply some more thought to achieving your goals as opposed to more effort.

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