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I'll bet that 90% of members posting in this discussion have never held much less owned a firearm. I actually heard an idiot say on the radio the other day that assault weapons were designed to kill people. Tell me one gun that was not designed to kill people. Go ahead. I'll wait. And while you're at it please define the words assault-weapon. That way we all know what you're talking about.

DeplorableMe59 3 Mar 4
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7

This is an obvious attempt at trolling. You are wrong on several counts but I don't care to engage with you as to why.

marmot84 Level 7 Mar 4, 2018
7

Actually, I've held and shot many guns. I love it. I always laugh when pro-gun people say we 'fear guns' blah blah blah. No, we don't.

An assault rifle, in my mind, is any rifle that is more than a one-shot. Anything semi-automatic or above.

And the key here is that while I love shooting I know that I am not someone who should have a gun, especially since I have a history of irrationality and anger problems. Especially because I was almost a school shooter but in a random moment of clarity I decided to drop out of school instead of kill everyone.

Perhaps try not to be so condescending and rude and maybe listen to the experiences of those around you instead of immediate hostility.

I don't share this photo often because it was during a weird time in my life where I was ugly but here's a photo of me shooting an AK47 along with a large number of other guns. Notice I only shoot with proper instruction and supervision? Yeah that's because I'm not someone with good judgement and shouldn't be left alone with guns. Wow I have impaired judgement and I'm STILL better with judgement than 90% of NRA supporters

7

Responsible gun owner here.

Assault weapon means high capacity - rapid fire - probably high caliber.

RavenCT Level 9 Mar 4, 2018

@Francoise Cavitation... just read about that in the ME's report of the school shooting. I'd never heard that word in reference to anything other than a submarine... well until now.

@Francoise Absolutely agree. I was horrified.

My sister's boss was recently shot by a random guy in CA. I don't know if he'll ever recover because the damage from this ammo is just - awful.

@Francoise The bullet doesn't tumble it explodes. High velocity rounds go so fast they explode on contact. That plus cavitation is what makes the massive amount of damage. If you get shot in the liver it destroys the whole organ.

@MikeFlora Also Hollow Points. Entrance wound is the size of the round - exit wound - way bigger.

Rounds that deliberately fragment. Etc...

@RavenCT That's what I was talking about. I was wrong there is another round for those guns that has less powder behind it and it does tumble when it hits the body

@MikeFlora I understood.

I read way too much "Anita Blake" to not be well educated about weapons... ok and vampires. lol

But L. Hamilton does great research on weapons. And ammo. It's a great education.

Not that the guy who taught my gun licensing class was bad either.

Most interesting ammo I've read about it one designed to not pass through a wall if you miss.

@RavenCT I can show you my nasty exit wound. The only reason it wasn't any larger was because I was wearing a stout, leather belt. It split in two, with frayed ends, but it saved a lot of my skin! The entry point was slightly higher up on the left hand side of my belly. Fortunately, I wrested the Browning from my would be killer just after that, then drove myself to the hospital.

@Petter Okay that sounds just awful. Good for you.

And do ambulances take that long to get to where you live? Cause driving while shot is dangerous. (Though I actually know someone else who did this?).

@RavenCT We're talking Africa. Ambulances, though scarce, were there, but how could you phone for one in the middle of the night, in the 1980s? Luckily, the hospital was only a couple of miles away, but even so, by the time I got there the gear lever was pretty slippery from my blood and I had minimal tunnel vision. I sort of parked outside the emergency area, got out, stumbled a few steps and fainted. I'm told that before I had hit the ground the medics had slipped a stretcher under me and rushed me in for emergency treatment.

6

Many weapons are actually almost specifically designed for target shooting or hunting, so you got that wrong. I'm a vet & tho in the USN & not as gun "immersed" as the Army or Marines we had to qualify & be familiar with a number of different weapons. So, another one down.

phxbillcee Level 10 Mar 4, 2018
5

The AR15 was created to compete with the Russian AK. It was never meant to be in the hands of civilians. AR-15 Inventor's Family: This Was Meant to Be a Military Weapon
[time.com]

Real men don't need little kids to die horrifically for their dipshit hobby they participate in 4 times a year.

Qualia Level 8 Mar 5, 2018
5

I came from a family of gun owners. When I was a kid 5 -15 y.o. we had two rifle racks hanging on our bedroom wall, a total of ten rifles. We had the ammunition for the rifles in our closet, of course both were locked up, we also had the keys, for the ammo box and guns. We never took the guns down, we never went into the ammo box, unless we were going to shoot target's. We were taught to respect all weapons and the damage that they could do.

Woodron Level 7 Mar 4, 2018

It is unfortunate that many gun owners, including those with children at home, are not as responsible as you are about keeping guns under lock and key.

@TerriCity
That was 50 years ago, when I was 5 years old, I had respect for weapons then and I have respect for the the damage that weapons can do today.

5

And by the way, you don't need to know the difference between a winchester and an AR15 to pull the trigger. I've shot soooo many guns and I can tell you the name of ONE.

4

Ronald Reagan said American citizens have no need to own an AK-47.

4

I was raised with guns, almost always had a handgun around. I was in Law enforcement for about 10 years. And with that I will say I am against the NRA positions period.
To meet the 2nd Amendment all we need is a weapon at home for protection. I believe that one moderate handgun or short hand grip shotgun for home protection, one traditional hunting rifle and one sport shotgun per adult at home is all anyone should have and meets the 2nd Amendment. remember it says regulated militia. We have a regulated Militia in the National Guard. All other types of guns should be baned from homes. All weapons owned by individuals beyond the aforementioned home protection and hunting guns should be stored by Law Enforcement in a safe, secure facility. Any use of them should be at an approved range. Any sales of any weapon should be highly vetted and approved only after strict background checks of buyer. To own a gun of any type more powerful than a BB gun one must pass a written and range test approved by ATF and a refresher course ever 5 years. Plus steep penalties of the felony type for breaking these laws.
This is the only way to get guns off the street and create a safer place for all. The statistics are proven by looking at countries around the world that have similar laws, each designed for their country and situation. Anything less is just making a half hearted attemp which will not bring about the results needed.
The transition will be difficult but that is because of the present philosophy on guns held by many in the NRA. Between the criminals and gun lovers it will take strict enforcement to accomplish the goal.

Tynorth46 Level 4 Mar 4, 2018

With these proposed policies, I'd vote you in as my spokesperson in this issue any day.

2

I know a few ammosexuals... No matter how many people end up dead due to a mass shooting with one of these assault weapons they continue the justification of the public being able to own them.

I told one of them that no matter what he thinks it actually doesn't make your penis any bigger from owning one... He didn't like that (he had a nonsensical reply about having these weapons in the hands of the public kept our country from being invaded... I looked at him like there were roaches coming out of his nostrils).

DGJ0114 Level 7 Mar 7, 2018
2

Combat vet here, sure it was kind fun to play with various guns while in the service but then I got out and matured a little. there is little to no reason for most people to have a gun.

self-defense? what about tasers, pepper spray, extendable batons, etc...
hunting? you don't need a rapid-fire gun, plus a bow or xbow is more sporting.
home defense? do you think any gun will stop the evil government from taking you down? otherwise, see self-defense above

@Francoise 2.9 million more people voted for Hillary Clinton than voted for Donald Trump. You see who's in the Whitehouse don't you. It worked for 250yrs, but now the person with the most votes is not guaranteed to win the election.

2

Gun Safety Fact Sheet: Assault Weapons (FL Coalition to Prevent Gun Violence)
Assault weapons are designed to kill humans quickly and efficiently. They have been the weapons of choice in some of America’s most horrific mass shootings, including those at the Orlando Pulse nightclub, Virginia Tech, Aurora Century Theater, and Sandy Hook Elementary School.
Facts You Should Know:
Assault weapons are usually defined by the following features:
Detachable ammunition magazines that hold up to 100 rounds;
Pistol and forward grips on rifles, allowing use in different positions and enabling spray-firing;
Threaded barrels for attaching silencers;
Folding rifle stocks for concealment and portability; and
Flash suppressors to avoid imperiling the shooter’s vision and to keep the shooter’s position from being identified in the dark.
Semi-automatic assault weapons, like Sig Sauer’s MCX, are civilian versions of military assault rifles. This is a distinction with no difference in killing power. They are arguably more deadly than military versions because most experts agree that semi-automatic fire is more accurate.
During the federal assault weapons ban in force from 1994-2004, two loopholes impacted the effectiveness of the ban: 1) assault-type firearms that didn’t meet the strict definition of assault weapons were substituted and 2) due to a grandfathering clause, re-sale of existing assault weapons and high-capacity magazines continued. The share of gun crimes committed with assault weapons did decline during the ban.

An analysis conducted by Thomas Gabor for Confronting Gun Violence in America shows that the rise in the number and lethality of public mass shootings coincides with the growing number of military-style weapons in the civilian market. Between 2010 and 2015, the annual numbers of mass shootings and the resulting deaths have increased sharply, at about four times the frequency observed in the 1980s.
A strong majority of Americans, including gun owners, consistently support laws prohibiting assault weapons. A poll conducted in December 2012 found that 62% of Americans favored banning military-style assault weapons.

Seven states and the District of Columbia have enacted laws banning assault weapons.
Bills have been introduced in the 2017 FL Legislative Session banning semi-assault weapons and high-capacity magazines. The FL Coalition to Prevent Gun Violence helped sponsor the legislation, proposed by Sen. Stewart (SB254) and Rep. Smith (HB167).
For more information:
Gabor, Thomas. “The Need for a Ban on Assault Weapons and High-Capacity Magazines.” Florida Coalition to Prevent Gun Violence, 3 November 2016. Web. 18 December 2016.
“Assault Weapons.” Smart Gun Laws. Law Center to Prevent Gun Violence, 2016. Web. 18 December 2016.
The Federal Assault Weapons Ban (AWB) of 1994 included language which prohibited semi-automatic rifles like the AR-15, and also large-capacity magazines with the ability to hold more than 10 rounds. The ban was allowed to expire after 10 years on September 13, 2004.

TerriCity Level 7 Mar 4, 2018
2

You know what's funny. By saying "Guns Kill" we are personifying the weapon, giving it human qualities. Since if we say "Guns kill" we could also say "Guns run" or "Guns hunt" since we have already applied the verb "killing" to the gun, why stop there?

Reason, because if we used the correct grammatical term to describe the gun "Guns can be used to kill" then it's too long and unfortunately it makes sense, so it can't be used by liberals as a slogan.

It also infers that the gun is a tool, used for the purpose of killing, therefor the responsibility of the killing is not that of the gun but that of the person behind it. Which makes no sense to silly liberals. Because the person is never responsible for the mass shooting, it was their access to a gun that caused the shooting somehow. Even though a man in China managed to kill 30+ people only with knives. It was the knife that did the killing, not the man right?

(I'm agreeing with you by the way, just wanted to add a "grammatical perspective" )

@Trajan61

Lancer Level 7 Mar 4, 2018

Well said. Most of the liberals on this website seem to be obcessed with seizing the guns of law abiding citizens.

You need to be careful here, this is my group and debate is welcome here, sarcastic insults are not! You need to get your facts straight, the gun is not responsible for the shooting, it's the number of victims that the gun is absolutely responsible for and that's the problem. Weapons of mass murder don't belong on the streets of America

@MikeFlora I meant no offense. I was just presenting a grammatical argument to the debate.

Ask I understand your concerns about the number of victims. But honestly, there are plenty of easy ways to increase the number of victims in incidents such as these. 1 would be to cut the mains power lines to an apartment building at 2:00 am and using multiple molotive cocktails along with a few diesel cans to spread a raging inferno in an apartment complex like in London.

Killing large numbers of people can be achieved by other means. Also fire is a great psychological weapon as well, much better than a gun.

@Trajan61 You also need to be careful, this is my group and debate is open to everybody, sarcastic insults are not. I see that word liberal one more time and I'll block both of you. You still don't understand. How many people do you think that lunatic in Las Vegas would have killed lobbing Molotov Cocktails out of his hotel room.
You say all we want to do is take law abiding citizens guns away again and you're both history. I've told all you assholes a thousand times I don't give a rat's ass how many guns you have, and other than assault weapons, I don't give a fuck how many kinds of guns you have. Stop spreading lies about what we want to do!!! Truth is I'm dropping the part about high capacity magazines. All I want is military style weapons. I'm not kidding, debate is welcome, telling lies and sarcastic insults are not. We don't do this shit to you other than the dude that calls you guys ammosexuals , and I'm not going to say anything to him because I think it's funny as hell. You want to continue debating you side of the argument, be civil and stop spreading lies about what we want to do. I know people are going to kill people nothing I can do about that, but I can do something about collateral damage.

@MikeFlora

Please just relax. I don't care if you block me, do as your conscience dictates.
All someone needs in order to kill multiple people is intent. I could easily kill dozens of people if I put my mind towards that sort of thing but the reason I don't is because I value all life equally. Everybody has the same right to live as I do.

This was never about banning or not banning guns. I have no opinion on the gun debate in America because I don't live there. All I can say is that after Australia banned guns, violent crime, home invasions, gang drive by shootings, rapes, homicides with knives all increased. The number of guns on the street increased for the criminals and now in order to be "initiated" into a gang, young boys are bashing old people on the street in broad daylight.

Australia may be the perfect model for America's gun laws, I disagree but that's just because I grew up in Australia where if someone said "Our gun laws are great" I just tell them the story of when my friend was robbed at gunpoint, cause that's what gun control does, it disarms law abiding citizens.

The crucial point on gun control in the US is background checks which are done, however in the case of the Florida School shooting it was obvious that the sherif, FBI, etc. wanted this to happen. They blatantly ignored over 20 warnings that this kid was going to kill people, at the end of the day if the police and government can't protect you, who's responsibility is it?

I'm all for reasonable gun control which I believe that America has, they just need to enforce the current regulations and also do their job and arrest criminals and investigate potential criminals that they have been warned about repeatedly.

You saw the news on Florida, Law enforcement officers waited behind their cars as more and more children died. Aren't they supposed to protect the children and citizens?

Boot me off this group if you want, but please think about this by considering the other sides perspective. Otherwise we will never get to the source of the problem.

@Trajan61

@Francoise
Nice picture.
Also just saying. The entire premise of this comment was that i was just making fun of the majority of anti gun people.

So fair play that you make fun of the other side of the argument. I'm all for making the world a safer place. Which is why I openly condemn netball. It is the biggest cause of long term knee, ankle, foot and back problems and it must be banned. (Not joking. Just talk to a doctor who has been in a hospital in Australia during a Saturday afternoon).

Anyway I'm for reasonable gun control. But I'm also an advocate of "police and FBI should do their jobs right" which in the case of Florida, they didn't.

@Francoise
We can't just blame the NRA for everything.

Also I am aware that there were no specific laws that could have been used to arrest this kid, except maybe charge him with something related to animal cruelty, do a psychological investigation and give those to the FBI. The guardians are also responsible since they noticed that he was fighting with their real son.

This could have been avoided if the parents had made preventative measures but there's no law that says "Teach your child that killing is bad" or "Children with psychopathic tendencies or scociopathic tendencies should be assessed my a doctor.

There were many things that could have been done to prevent this that aren't related to the law.

Also the fact that Sheriff's just waited outside the school as kids were dying, that's pretty dodgy. If people are saying to give up guns because the police and sheriff's will save them. Then they should reserve their own grave sites pretty soon. Because ultimately it is the individual's responsibility to be able to defend them-self.

@Francoise

This just seems like the old argument of "Society must walk as fast as it's slowest person" which is the reason we have so many laws. Because people are not responsible for themselves anymore.

I'm all in favor of reasonable gun control measures. But banning all guns won't solve anything. Just look at Australia, overall crime increased dramatically after 1996 even after we banned guns. We also continued to have mass shootings but instead of publicizing them, we change the number of dead people from 2 to 4 for a mass shooting classification.

What you are asking for will only result in thousands of deaths of law abiding citizens. Rather than disarm the people and make them into ideal victims for criminals. Maybe try to understand the root of the problem. Mental illness mixed with the exclusionary culture at schools is what creates mass shooters. At school I was shunned, bullied and pushed away just for being Asian. But I managed to hang on because I had 1 friend, that's all it takes.

@Francoise
Fair enough. I'm just presenting the Australian perspective on the gun debate. Where it costs around $90 per year to keep your gun after a $300 payment for your license. So firstly it's a tax revenue thing just like speed cameras.
Also we have had increasing numbers of drive by shootings in Melbourne and Sydney. Guns in criminal gangs are also becoming more prevalent.
Also citizens can't even carry a knife, bat or tazer to defend themselves against an attacker.

Granted I can somewhat agree with you on the AR-15 matter (increasing the age to 21 to buy one) but I would prefer if we look into the causative factors, what caused the people to become so mentally insane that they would commit atrocities like these. Granted that that'll cost a lot of money in investigations, but if we want to prevent the problem we need to understand the problem.

Switzerland has more guns per person in the civilian population than America, yet they are so much safer with regards to gun crime. The problem is mental, not physical. If a crazy person wants to kill a lot of people. There's not much anyone can do unless the police do their jobs and investigate. There are also talks on a new type of gun restraining order where people can report a person's erratic or scociopathic behavior, police investigate them and if they are deemed mentally unfit, the police can input that into the federal database and when a background check is run, they won't be able to buy a gun.

I know I can't have an opinion on the US gun control debate since I'm an outsider. But I just don't want the US to go the way of Australia.

Mental illness is becoming more common because of the way our society has changed. We beget our individual responsibilities and force them onto the government, police and other organisations because people don't want the extra work of raising their kids right, protecting themselves, earning their own money, etc.

We need to change society to prevent these atrocities. Yes, the US could change some laws or suggest new ones. But at the end of the day, what do laws mean to criminals? Law's won't protect people from criminals, good men and women who are armed, trained and willing to defend the weak are what stop criminals. We have made society progressively weaker to the point where being a victim is considered the norm. We need to stop that, we need to teach the children to be men and women, not boys and girls.

@Francoise Sure. Giving a coward a gun always does nothing.
That's why some teachers like the ones in a Texas school where they allow teachers to carry guns if they choose to arm themselves. Because they understand the most basic human right there is, the right to self defense and they want to protect the lives of their students from people who would do them harm.

People can say the pen is mightier than the sword, but at the end of the day a pen won't save lives, a weapon will.

You saw as much as anyone what happened in Florida. There was a political agenda to increase the body count by stopping law enforcement officers and the resource officer from entering the school during the shooting. Either that or worse, cowardice. Also there have been several instances where a good citizen stopped mass murder with a gun, but those don't count as statistics because the crime was stopped before it occurred. Every day there are hundreds of crimes committed, however there are also hundreds of crimes stopped. That's what you don't realize. Guns can protect law abiding citizens from threats.

This is and never was a gun problem, this was a cultural and societal problem. America needs to get a reality check and start doing the right thing. Mainly the government since they knew well in advance that this attack was going to happen. The FBI could have stopped it, the Sheriff could have stopped it. This is no accident because it implies that there is no none to blame. The FBI always had the blood of innocents on their hands, it just so happens that now they have a bit more American blood on their hands.

1

In my youth, around the time when some nut was building a boat to save penguins from drowning, I did my national service. I was an average shot with the rifle, but a marksman with the Bren machine gun - a beautiful piece of machinery. I loved firing it, but never wished to own one for myself. I was content to use the ones the army supplied me - as should be case with all people. If you wish to play with guns, join a military reserve unit.

Petter Level 9 Apr 13, 2018
1

Other than military style rifles, all other rifles were designed for game or trophy hunting and/or target shooting. Calibers were designed for distance and impact. Even shotguns were designed more for small, fast moving targets than anything else.
Generally assault weapons are considered semi/auto weapons with high capacity, detachable magazines.
A lot of pistols are in fact designed to kill people
I have owned several types of pistols and several kinds of rifles

MikeFlora Level 7 Mar 4, 2018
1

Well dude... I live in Vegas in a house with a 9MM and a shotgun... Here in Maryland I found an automatic cal 45 in the coat of my deceased brother in law. Nobody present wanted it. We all laughed about it like another anecdote from a former convict... We gave it to my nephew when he came in... Just today, getting rid of his clothes in his wardrobe room... we found some clips for the gun... more laughs but guns are not a laughing matter... assault or not assault, mass destruction or not a mass destruction... they are not funny to those at the other end of the barrel... Like others said here... I am former military... had to qual in shotgun and handguns... I still don't give a fuck about them!!!!

1

It's kind of funny how you came here specifically to start shit but yet you have no responses

0

I as well am former military and was assigned to 2nd batallion 75th rangers. And I like other vets don't see the need or desire to own a military style weapon such as the AR-15. And your conclusion that all weapons are designed to kill people borders on lunacy. For while a weapon has that potential, it's not necessarily their express design.

0

I as well am former military and was assigned to 2nd batallion 75th rangers. And I like other vets don't see the need or desire to own a military style weapon such as the AR-15. And your conclusion that all weapons are designed to kill people borders on lunacy. For while a weapon has that potential, it's not necessarily their express design.

0

I'm happy to announce that I have never held, fired or wanted a gun. I have only had one pointed at me once, and that was once too many. The idea that by shooting a gun, my opinion becomes somehow more valid is beyond stupid.

Gareth Level 7 Apr 27, 2018
0

Sigh. Just one point. Stop saying that violent crime in Australia increased after the gun laws were tightened. This is utter bullshit.
[snopes.com]

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