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This must be the time of the greatest number of political agnostics throughout history. I suspect that May was an agnostic and CHOSE to let the ERG lead her like a lamb - to make her party survive. Why cannot people see that many who voted to leave were NOT stupid but agnostic about the real battle ahead. We do need another period of preparation in readiness for a new vote without lies.

My suggestion for a shortest preparation for a new vote is now shown immediately below.. Sorry I did not put this in the original post at the original posting. Please vote to help me judge how effective the suggestion would be if there is to be a second vote. That is a definite,growing and fair possibility.

Designate ONLY two organizations to promote LEAVE/REMAIN

Each side makes a 20 min video putting facts and some possible future procedures forward.

Each side shows the other side their Video in secret

Each side prepares a 10 minute rebuttal video and joins them to make a 30 minute video

The combined videos are shown as a one hour presentation on all television channels

An unbiased organization produces 2 min clip videos from randomly selected panel of ordinary voters . The above are combined into a 1 hour video shown the next night again on all channels.

Have the vote soon after

This suggestion can be improved with more checks and balances at various points

  • 5 votes
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Mcflewster 8 Mar 13
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May is not a lamb. She is a mule. Stubborn to the point of being flogged to death rather than move.

Red_Cat Level 7 Mar 14, 2019
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We all know that the pollution of our atmosphere by burning fossil fuels causes impairment of brain function. I didn't realise that the concentration of pollutants in the Westminster Parliament must be off the scale.

Grumpy Level 5 Mar 13, 2019
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Yes, so long as we can erase the past 3 years of lies, bile and propaganda that'd be a great idea. Otherwise I can't really see the point.

MattHardy Level 7 Mar 13, 2019

I.e abolish Brexit? or Not?

1

I was pondering the same about two hours ago myself. I believe that we need to put Brexshit on hold for up to a year, have a general election, with some of the MPs being exempt from standing - May, Bo-Jo, Gove, Fox, Mogg and Corbyn. Form a government of national unity for the duration of the crisis. Then put the choice of WTO, New Deal and remain to the public as a binding vote using single transferable voting. This will confirm the decision. Add to this an objective organisation who will fact check statements and the the deals consequences. Then like France, halt electioneering three days prior to the vote so the public can think. If some stupid media outlet decides to state how to vote, the the process will be halted and the media fined for the whole cost of the delay.

Sofabeast Level 7 Mar 13, 2019
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I'll be interested to see if the vote tonight makes illegal a no deal brexit. If it does, that basically ties the hands of the government, they are faced with asking/pleading for a March 29th extension from the EU, if they refuse then the ONLY choice is to withdraw the application to leave. Exit brexit.

Apparently now that Parliament HAS voted against the no deal scenario, the wicked witch of westminster has decided the vote has no legally binding effect and she will do what she likes anyway.

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Many days I envy the Brits. At least you can have this conversation. In the states, we have a pompus POS posing as a leader signing bibles (with historic support by evangelicals) while consistently breaking all of the "rules" of the hypocritical churches.

We all have our crosses to bear....if you’ll pardon the expression!

What is physically stopping you, Beowulfsfriend ?

@Mcflewster love. I even found an apartment in the British countryside. New, younger GF, still has years to live her career.

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It’s an almighty mess we have got ourselves into. I don’t think it would have mattered who was trying to do the negotiations, Mrs May, or any other Tory....it’s impossible to square a circle....or in this case to achieve the impossible and fulfil the wishes of all factions and different strands of opinion in her own party, never mind the country! This idea that our future must all be pinned on a single binary vote on a single day in 2016 is complete madness...the margin in favour of leaving was only 4 percentage points, and yet the rabid brexiteers repeat the mantra “the people voted to leave “... as though everyone did. She put Brexiteers David Davies and Liam Fox in the main negotiating positions, and made Boris Johnson, Foreign Secretary. They all failed and were removed or resigned, so it’s not that they were too agnostic in their beliefs, quite the reverse. Mrs. May is not a natural leader, she is not passionate enough about anything, she should never have put herself forward to be leader of the party, but at the time the Tories had to make the choice, she seemed to be the least worst option. Her days are now quite obviously numbered, I dread to think what may come after her. As for what may happen now, I’m way past making any predictions....like everyone else. What you suggest may sound sensible, and I’ve voted yes in the above poll, but really don’t believe another vote will happen.

Think she is passionate about religion and quite often preaches but is religious in technical points

“the people voted to leave “ needs to be demoted but NOT dismissed. It needs to be put in its proper place in the lead to a new vote of INFORMED consent leading up a properly constructed if overly lengthened referendum. That is why we need a rather long extension to the ROLLING democratic process.

@Hebert54 I agree with your comment about how democracy works, but I really meant that on something so important, a larger margin should have been built into the question in the first place....at least 10% I think. The whole referendum issue is questionable in a Parliamentary Democracy.

@Hebert54 we are not in disagreement on this.

On something as important as this and bearing in mind the vote was non binding , I think the government should have said , if the vote was a close win to leave then they would still go ahead with obtaining a deal but it would then have to be ratified by another vote st the end of negotiations.i know it was difficult as they couldn’t start negotiating until they said they were leaving but in view of the current mess it might have made it easier. Of course if the vote had been wider than say 60/40 then they could say that’s it we are leaving deal or no deal.
I just feel that when the result came in most people would have assumed we would get a deal something like Norway even if they were not happy with it. I also think if the vote had been 52/48 the other way then on the whole we would have just carried on normally and it would have been largely forgotten about apart from Nigel Farage still going on about having another referendum because the result was so close

@Hebert54 I already said I take your point about a win being a win, however it is possible that we can be allowed to change our minds on issues. Remember too that this was never a legally binding referendum, it was actually advisory....it was the Tory party who decided it would be treated like it was sacrosanct. She should never have triggered Article 50 so quickly, but allowed a period of reflection and advice from a coalition of all the parties and different devolved administrations. We may then have got a clearer idea of what we wished to negotiate, and to what ultimate objective. Mrs. May’s style of secrecy and exclusion has had the effect of making the divide between ideologies more marked, there has been absolutely no attempt to bring this nation together by her. One can never feel anything except that her first concern has always been appeasing her own backbenchers, never what is best for the nation as a whole. Jeremy Corbyn and the Labour Party have not been clear about where they stand on most of the Brexit issues, and have never spoken with a single, or even consistent voice either, and I don’t have any faith that they would have done a better job. Nobody can predict from one day to the next what may happen...we are all just watching agog at the farce played out at Westminster daily.

@Hebert54 No a referendum can be made to be effective if there is a prearranged minimum margin.

@Mcflewster Yes..but there wasn’t in this case.

@Marionville There should have been. One can dream?

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My suggestion for a shortest .preparation for a new vote Please vote above

Designate ONLY two organizations to promote LEAVE/REMAIN

Each side makes a 20 min video putting facts and some possible future procedures forward.

Each side shows the other side their Video in secret

Each side prepares a 10 minute rebuttal video and joins them to make a 30 minute video

The combined videos are shown as a one hour presentation on all television channels

An unbiased organization produces 2 min clip videos from randomly selected panel of ordinary voters .

The above are combined into a 1 hour video shown the next night again on all channels.

Have the vote soon after

This suggestion can be improved with more checks and balances at various points

Mcflewster Level 8 Mar 13, 2019
0

How are you going to achieve that? The information people get is fed to them by the government or the media. The media are controlled by a handful of people who support the right wing of the government. If there is another referendum people will be fed lies in large print and dramatic scenarios and truth in very small print. And what happens a) if Remain wins but by as small a majority as leave won the first time, b) if Leave wins again? Better to park the issue temporarily, have a general election on the issues which are currently seriously damaging the country, then think about the EU later.

CeliaVL Level 7 Mar 13, 2019

Please re-read my suggestion above which I think you missed. Combining a general election with this process would be disastrous because we need to scientifically know the informed population view on Brexit alone.

@Mcflewster I read your suggestions. Where are you going to find 'independent' or 'unbiased organisations' to present your remain and leave scenarios? Who will decide that they are unbiased? There is very little agreement as to what are 'the facts' of either leaving or remaining. In addition, people voted leave or remain for all sorts of reasons unconnected with 'the facts' of being in the EU. Why do you think areas of the country which essentially depend on EU subsidies, like Cornwall, voted overwhelmingly to leave?

@CeliaVL My answer to your question is going to sound a little curt and in addition you probably will not like it. But the answer is adopt science attitudes and methods as applied to politics. Everyone will IMO eventually decide to do that. The quicker we do it the quicker out of the mess and the less likely it is to come back. With a will all your questions will be answered by good people but the people of Cornwall will still have to determine their own future.

0

Agreed

Flettie Level 7 Mar 13, 2019

With what, Flettie?

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