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I watched Newsnight last night where former Tory Minister and unlikely star of Strictly Come Dancing....Ann Widdecombe was a guest. She, an ardent pro Brexiter, stated that she believed three things about the current deadlock.....1) Mrs. May is the worst Prime Minister in British history, 2) Jeremy Corbyn is the worst Opposition leader in history, and 3) that the current batch of MPs are the worst in Parlimentary history. It got me thinking, and whilst I concur absolutely with numbers 1 & 2, I think that we are lucky that we have such a diversity of views and opinions in our Parliament. Despite the current deadlock at Wesminster, what we have been watching, agog, at all of the tortuous horse-trading and evident shambolic procedings, which are unfolding, with the eyes of the world watching.....is actually a demonstration of democracy in action. This morning, after overnight reflection on Widdecombe’s remarks, I feel quite proud that we don’t have a bunch of yes men and women, who will just rubber stamp this obviously bad deal for the UK, that Mrs May has been trying to sell them. Regardless of our stance on remaining or leaving, we can see that our MPs are in the main, freethinking, and are exhibiting that most British of all characteristics...bloodymindedness!

Marionville 10 Apr 2
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11 comments

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1

I don't think bloodymindedness is necessarily a virtue if it means just going against everything, no matter what. But if it means refusing thing to be driven by biased media, I agree. Anne Widdecombe strikes me as a rather silly attention seeker and I wouldn't be swayed by her opinions. I am surprised that you don't like Jeremy Corbyn - I think he is the best leader Labour has had for a long time, and the current Labour policies are supported by nearly three-quarters of the population. Brexit has put Parliament in a very difficult situation because MPs are often not really very like the people they represent , with the result that the proportion of remainers in Parliament is much higher than in the country at large.

CeliaVL Level 7 Apr 30, 2019

It’s not a question of whether I like him or not....it’s whether he can get Labour elected, and I have serious doubts about that. Being in permanent opposition is a pointless exercise, so unless Corbyn can persuade a large number of the electorate to vote for him, his principles will count for nothing,

@Marionville I think he will get elected at the next GE with a workable majority. The electorate like Labour's policies, especially younger voters.

@CeliaVL. Time will tell on that ,

0

The problem is that the majority of parliament are remainers. They are basically voting for the best way to execute themselves. They know the British people were sold a lie and whatever is agreed is going to disastrous to the UK. I honestly think Mrs. May is deliberately messing it up in order to kick this into the long grass.

Amisja Level 8 Apr 14, 2019

I don’t think that Mrs May is acting deliberately in order to mess up, though she undoubtedly has....I just think she needed to get all sides and Parties together at the beginning, not lay down red lines from the start, and stop allowing the tail to wag the dog (ERG and DUP). She then could have got a compromise which may have been acceptable. My own option is never to leave, but I am a realist, and accept that we were beaten in the referendum, even though I deeply regret that so many of my fellow citizens voted to leave.

@Marionville I voted remain. I do not know one person who voted leave

@Amisja Some of my friends voted leave...I have stopped discussing Brexit with them....they are all delusional about how rosy a future we will have when unshackled from Europe! Most of them read the Daily Mail...enough said! They mostly vote DUP too and did what they told them to do, to vote leave. I hate the DUP with a vengeance....that goes without saying!!

0

I think it is going to turn out that Corbyn has been the smartest player in the last two years. If you disagree then ask yourself how you would have played the game, with the country split right down the middle and through each of the main parties. Even the Lib Dems have kept theirs heads down.

chazwin Level 6 Apr 14, 2019

You may be proved right...he has certainly kept everyone guessing right from the start, whether his ambivalence will prove to win him votes if it comes to a General Election is as yet unknown. By that stage he would have had to declare his hand one way or the other, is he for allowing us to have a vote on the final deal or not. I believe that leaders should lead, they should not be weighing up what way the wind is blowing before making decisions, they should be policy makers out of conviction not expedience. He has, in the past, always seemed to be a conviction politician, but always from the safety of the backbenches, where his dissent was never going to be policy, as yet he is completely unproven as a leader.

@Marionville The media has persistently tried to say that Corbyn has kept everyone in the dark. But the fact of the matter is that Labour policy is crystal clear on this matter, and JC has stuck to it throughout. The media are playing games as usual.

@chazwin Time will tell.

I support JC 100% but he has not been very political about this whole thing. Neither this nor the anti-semitism row. JC is a man of principles and integrity. He is honest to his core. Unfortunately that is not what is needed in politics.

@Amisja How would you have acted differently?

@Marionville On the matter of JC and Labour's consistency, it is the Media that have kept people in the dark.

@chazwin I can’t even vote for him....so I’m really just an onlooker. I think that it’s disgrace that Labour decided not to stand in Northern Ireland....the SDLP is not a substitute that many here see as a viable alternative to Sinn Fein or the DUP.

You say the LibDems have "kept their heads down", but they have managed a healthy comeback in these elections.

0

There is also, of course, the consideration that they are doing their best, not for Britain but for themselves.
I am of the opinion that for myself, I am better off with Britain in the EU. However, for Britain its long term benefit is to be well distanced from the EU.
Why? Because of the Euro.
The euro, sooner or later, is going to schism because the needs of individual countries differ. Germany needs low interest rates. Mediterranean countries need higher rates to curb speculation. That was the root cause of the ongoing crisis on Greece, Italy, Portugal and Spain. I know Britain does not use the Euro, but when it does schism there is going to be a nasty fallout for EVERY EU nation. The more distance Britain can create, by trading with a host of non-EU states and by not being part of the EU budget, the better it will be.
Therefore, cold logic says "Leave" not " soft Brexit', although I, as an individual, will be worse off.
Few MPs ever consider the long term benefit of Britain before the short term benefit to themselves.

Petter Level 9 Apr 2, 2019

I respect your views regarding the EU...but cannot agree that it’s in Britain’s interest to leave. I think your views of our MPs are much too sweeping, I know that there is a great diversity within parliament, and they are not all in it for what they can get out of it for themselves. It is delusional for us to believe that we will get better deals on our own. The breakup of the UK is also becoming increasingly likely due to Brexit, the exact opposite of what the most arch brexiteers actually want....yes it was never thought through sufficiently, I do agree on that point.

The Euro is a complete red herring, as the UK shall never have to surrender its currency. That is what the veto is for. But as for the euro: all but France and Germany have found it to be an unmitigated disaster with all the economic power concentrating on the big two. This is a general and persistent prob!am with large polities. Power and economic wealth always polarise. I n the USA the centre is a wasteland, with the riches flowing East and West. Even without the euro, the UK benefits from cheap labour, through free movement, whilst Poland and Hungary suffer from manpower shortages. This cheap labour impoverished the poor in the UK, whilst damaging the donor economies of poorer countries.

@chazwin Republic of Ireland???

1

I agree with you. We could really do with Brexshit put on hold for 12 months. Elect our MEPs then have a general election with Brexshit at its heart. Effectively a second referendum via the ballot box. Some MPs need to be excluded from standing ever again. Boris, Gove, May, Corbyn, and Reese-Mogg.
Once we a have a new government, then they must act together and decide on what choices for Brexshit are available. This must include what the EU will accept too. Then the choices will be put to the people for a final say. As this campaign proceeds an objective body must check the facts being touted. If like last time there is a blatant lie splashed on a bus, then this must be made plain to the public and those who spout the untruths will be branded as liars to the people, and will be removed from further campaigning.

Sofabeast Level 7 Apr 2, 2019
0

The only problem about this is the clock on the no deal time bomb set to go off on the 12th April is getting uncomfortably close and I’m beginning to think there is an element of deliberately running the clock down by some to achieve this. Just think we are doomed

Not addressed my point...are our MPs doing their jobs as parliamentarians are intended to do, or are they the worst bunch ever elected, as Widdicombe asserts?

0

Nah, Maggy was way worse than May. Maggy was actively evil, May just got landed in a shit situation and dealt with it incompetently.
As for worst LOtO, Michael Foot springs to mind for tanking the Labour party and being uniquely unelectable.
As for Corbyn, I like him. He's one of the few politicians who aren't in it for what they can get out of it. He's had a real job. He's stuck to his core beliefs even during the New Labour period, and strongly condemned the whole Iraq War debacle. But the fact that he is roundly loathed by a large percentage of his own MP's and his utterly poisonous relationship with the press are pretty big roadblocks.

You have failed to address point number 3. It’s a matter of personal choice who we believe to be worse May or Thatcher, personally although I disliked Thatcher I thought she was an effective leader, therefore a better PM. Corbyn has divided his party, whether I like him or not is immaterial, that is not leadership...he has also been ambiguous in his views around Brexit. I really only used points 1 and 2 as a preamble for my main point of whether our present bunch of MPs are the worst ever, as Widdicombe asserts. She, herself is a loathesome bigoted old hag, but that wasn’t my point either.

@Marionville I reckon the current crop contains a bunch of Etonians who weren't smart enough for Oxbridge academia or the City, a lump of careerists with their eyes on post-politics executive director/charity CEO positions, and a smattering of people who actually want to make their constituent's lives better.
Par for the course, really.

@MrBeelzeebubbles Just much as I thought.

1

The old saying ‘you can’t please all the people all the time’ should be replaced with with ‘you can’t please anyone period’ at least that’s what it seems like.
If you want to know who will benefit from Brexit, check out who paid for all the advertising and made up the rhetoric and how much of it was actually factual.
The referendum should never have been an option, the issue is far to complicated and complex for Joe public to decide on by voting on a few issues that were total lies and May insists she is trying to carry out the voters desires???

RichieO Level 8 Apr 2, 2019
1

I despise Ann Widdecombe, she is the very Epitome of open hypocrisy declaring itself to be virtuous.
A woman who has voted in her time against a women's rights, is ardently pro-life while claiming to be on the side of female liberation. She is an obviously closeted lesbian who has throughout her career oppressed homosexuals and gay rights and fought tirelessly against marriage equality.
She vehemently stands for what she calls "Traditional Values" while openly advocating prejudice, relish her own ignorance and proclaims her lack of knowledge a duty as a Christian not to expose herself to corrupting and non faith promoting lies.
A practicing Roman Catholic she is biblically, theologically and historically selective in her "belief" in history, claiming a legitimate right to ignore and disparage as lies "unfortunate" historical facts.

Her opinions to me, are worthless other than when stating the obvious, born of an obsolete set of values and jingoistic dubious morals long since combined to the dustbin of history.
Her fame like wise is born of being "controversial" a media euphemism for overt Bigotry.

@OwlInASack @LenHazell53 You are completely missing the point I was making in my post....whether we agree or disagree on the merits of Widdicombe, May or Corbyn, it was the third statement about our current batch of parliamentarians that I wanted your opinion on.

@Marionville
Whether the old bag is right or not about the current state of the UK government, is for the reasons I stated, irrelevant to me, I am capable of making my own judgements that may (no pun intended) coincide with hers on some points is purely coincidental.
British politicians have always been bloody minded, self serving and corrupt, it is a job requirement for ministerial office.
Unser usual circumstance there can be a consensus as to what will or will not happen, worked out well in advance, the current fiasco is the result of a number of unique circumstances.
Fist the country being split almost exactly in half between remainers and leavers, so what ever the government or parliament do they are going to enrage half the populous. A complete no win scenario.
Secondly The government and parliament while having to pay lip service to the "democracy" of the referendum, know Brexit is economic suicide and will cost them their backers if it goes through, and that No-Deal is a recipe for national bankruptcy. So they don't want it, not even the ardent Brexiteers like Grease Smog are playing the long game for their own ultimate financial benefit but could and would never actually deliver anything more than a pseudo Brexit in name only.
Thirdly this whole situation is the death Knell of the two party system and possibly of representative democracy. When this is all over no matter how it turns out, the whole system will be revamped to make sure it can never happen again, it will probably result in a much worse and more dictatorial system that concentrates more power in to far less hands.

0

She is probably right but if she supports Brexit she is no better than them. I watched a video of Michael Heseltine stating that in leaving the EU we would instead of regaining sovereignty be giving it up.
Although he is a Tory I have always had a grudging admiration for him since his mace swinging Tarzan days and he is certainly speaking sense now.

Moravian Level 8 Apr 2, 2019

Yes...I was sorry that he lost the leadership vote in the Tory party....I think he’d have made a good PM. Widdicombe is horrendous in all respects....even if she was right on. 1 and 2!

1

I am all in favour of having a diversity of opinions in Parliament, but I am rather more dubious about the motivation of a lot of the MPs.We need a lot more young people and a lot fewer wealthy people there.

CeliaVL Level 7 Apr 2, 2019

That goes without saying....but there is still quite a diversity of opinion and they are not all wealthy...at least not as wealthy as a handful of the Tory Grandees. There are single parent black female MPs, and lots of second generation immigrants, black and Asian amongst their numbers, There are Trade unionists and genuinely honest and hardworking constituency MPs, of course we do know the main offenders when it comes to dubious motivation, but that’s to do a disservice to the others to tar them with the same brush.

@Marionville I agree. But there are still too many who use it as a means to further enrich themselves. It is not as bad as the USA but I think we should do more to control lobbying groups, too.

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