I agree but a piece of information I learned years ago concerned population dynamics. When a group is a small fish it often seeks a union with others to gain strength and resources. When a group becomes large it often tries to break away from the flock because the feel they can do better on their own and don't want all the rules the group has set. I see this dynamic a lot especially lately. Often it is not a conscious decision to join or stay but simply how natural dynamics often work.

@JackPedigo I do not care MUCH about fish [I was brought up a butcher]. but I do care very much about HUMANS and this is why I am a Humanists and am very interested in how Humans group but MORE interested in how they can change things as individuals . IMO science individually applied is the way to do this.

All true , but what is your ultimate solution . Mine is Revoke article 50 and start again with new constitution, voting system and MP +MEP interactions with their constituents.

@Mcflewster I agree with all of that, however have no great expectations of any of it happening.

@Marionville Sad for us all

@Mcflewster People can and often do change things. But the right person has to come along at the right time and that doesn't happen very often. More often then not the herd mentality takes over.

Surely the only sensible way forward now is to revoke article 50, start work NOW on a written revised constitution ; a new way of voting including well thought out PR system and a set of rules for formulating any fresh referendum. I.E To START all over again. If the retainers do not win in the next few days it will still be Brexit , Brexit,brexit for at least 10 years.

@Mcflewster PR voting, as practised in Spain, is utterly corrupt. Voting for a party list puts power into the hands of the party bosses, who don't even stand for election. I have lived in Spain for 32 years and know many "influential" people who control local politics yet are not elected to any public office.
The only reasonably fair sysyem is individuals standing for each seat, and if there is no clearcut winner, then each voters "second" choice candidate being allocated "half weight" votes.

@Petter The "Alternative Vote" system was rejected in a referendum some time ago. The main problem with it is, I think, that it is entirely possible for nobody's first choice to be elected in any given constituency.

@Red_Cat That problem would never arise if, as I stated, second votes only count at half value.

@Petter Never? I, for one, say Never say never.

@Red_Cat OK. Vanishingly rarely.

@Petter Couldn't have put better myself