It really is our own fault. It is said people get the government they deserve.

@altschmerz The problems ae worse in some places and better in others. Here the state bends over backward to increase voter rights. However, I worked a polling station for five years and saw a lot of nitwit voters. Even a local journalist wrote about how the average voter is a nitwit. There are simply too many things that influence voters and too many choices. People want simplicity and can't handle complex things.

@JackPedigo I would say we get the government voted for. When the vast majority keep voting for the same people over and over knowing what the results will be, they get the same government that they keep giving substantially low approval rates to. Quite frankly, it speaks loudly to their indoctrination of conditioning of stupidity.

This is probably the only area I'll actually use a derogatory comment towards people in this group and in my the country. But if we are only giving an approval rating to our representatives in the 1/4 range and lower while continuing to vote for them, knowing they aren't representing us, but the ruling class, there's no other explanation for it other than stupidity.

Even worse are those able to break free of tribal politics yet vote consistently for the same party in belief that makes a difference. Both parties represent the same failed system that benefits the same ruling elite. When people except a behavior from their representatives they wouldn't allow from their friends and family to keep a secure life and home structure, they support a failed society, often which eventually carries over into many families to be devastated. We're destroying ourselves.

@JackPedigo Takes a lot to wade throught the BS and most do not want to take the time. Hell, in my not 50s and 60s I had the political awareness of a clam. Around my late 30's I started paying more attention but depending on what stage my relationship with my ex so was at my voting record was not consistant. Best chats ever were with my Dad, he really got what was happening in the Reagan years.

@William_ Also, there's a lot of corruption with one party and too many people are savvy enough to understand how this hurts our country.It is said for a democracy to work the majority of people need to be literate. Given the complexity of the world situation that is nigh on impossible. Even I, who read the voters pamphlet and try to understand the issues and politicians, still leave some areas blank. Too many are ready to practice what I call coin toss voting.

@William_Mary, @silverotter11 When I lived in Germany I too was not as politically motivated as now. With Carter the value of the dollar to Deutsch Mark fell so I voted for Reagan. Being around so many military personnel I considered myself a moderate conservative.

Even here, with our mail-in ballots I have heard of men filling in their wives card. I can imagine that is true.

@JackPedigo are you claiming that only one party is corrupt?

Coin toss voting is a lack of information on candidates found mostly in state and local elections. I also associate this with positions that shouldn't be party affiliated. Such as anything to do with applying law and legal matters. Heads of law enforcement and judicial positions have a governed law to follow, party affiliation should have no determination on how our laws are applied.

If you're tossing coins to vote then you shouldn't be voting. The ignorance only exacerbates our problems, especially within the nation arena. Quite frankly, this is exactly why our state and local regions are riddled with corruption that goes heavily unnoticed, and serves as the measuring stick to national politics I occasionally try to expose. Why I argue we must start at the top and work down with a president willing and able to expose this failed system using the most prestigious platform available.

Neither of our 2 parties of the establishment are fully exposing the other of the delusional reality manufactured, they are collaborate to keep the truth and lies of the most substantial importance of the world society hidden. Again, can you sincerely claim only one party is corrupt. Since at least Reagan the same agenda and policies have been an ongoing strategy. As each successor has simply been exacerbating the program.

@JackPedigo When we did go to all mail in ballots I was living in Cle Elum. Can't get much whiter or republican (well maybe Bucks County, PA where my sister lives) and that was a major concern for me. I know for a FACT many older women did not want to do a mail in ballot because their husband would just mark the boxes on the ballot and they would only be signing it.
Both parties primarily cater to big business, yes one more than the other and neither party wants the American public to know the truth.

@William_Mary Again, personal jabs which, to me and many of this this invalidates any argument from the name caller. Besides I don't know where any of the assumptions leveled against me came from. I did not claim anything I was accused of an, evidently, this is yet another example of misreading or misinterpretating my comment.

Coin toss is a lack of information and it can be found in all elections including federal. It is also a sign that people don't vote from true knowledge but outside influences like yard signs or even meeting a candidate or reading one side of an issue. It is way too common and I saw this all the time during my 5 years of working at the poll station.

FYI, I speak from experience not conjecture or self-induced leanings.

@William_Mary, @silverotter11 Unfortunately, it takes tons of money to run for a position or to pass an issue. The push to get as many to vote (despite their mental qualifications) is why it is sooo expensive. In Seattle ballots and voter pamphlets were even printed in Chinese. That money can only come from big business. It's a part of the pact democracy has with the 'devil.' lol but not lol

@JackPedigo only because we've allowed our political arena to be manipulated by the ruling class and the collaborate elite representation.

Manipulation and collaboration are also the same means that create a false reality from our forth estate creating an ignorant public when voting. It has nothing to do with mental qualification. There isn't a person anywhere that isn't caught up by the indoctrination of false negative propaganda. That includes me as I'm occasionally caught off guard, often with little to no information on a specific matter.

How you address these matters and how far down the rabbit hole you've allowed yourself to be drawn in determines the amount of positive retrospect you can apply to matter. Our politics are almost always a mirror of history people have been indoctrinated to forget or aren't aware of.

Most people are voting out of ignorance because they don't do the work to vote properly while depending on a corrupt forth estate as reliable information which is the only source being beaten into their brain 24/7. Many so far down the rabbit hole that when you provide more factual information covering the whole issue they refuse it and can't even begin to filter out the false narratives.

This is a mirror effect to voting for the same useless representatives we give low approval ratings to as you realize they aren't representing you. They continue to rely on MSCM knowing we have a fake news problem. Mistaking indoctrination as some sort of mental issue isn't going to help us to get people to redevelop their manor of information intake. It's a futile accusation that only adds to the political strife already being used against us to divide us.

@JackPedigo hold that thought for when I have time. But you should have been more specific with your coin toss statement. If you open a can of worms on me like this it make it easy for me to go in the wrong direction. Then to come back firing on me as such is totally unfair. To me I took it as though you meant people could be just voting blindly on candidates they have no means to place an informative X on.

@William_Mary I rechecked my reply and saw no person attacks. I am careful to phrase my comments in a general manner and not point fingers. Coin toss is something I came up with to explain the many times voters came to us asking what they should do when they don't know about a specific person/issue. The felt if they left the item blank it would invalidate the vote. Basic information like this need to be given perhaps in the voting station or in HS classes.

@William_Mary Again, the problem with the system is it has gotten overly complex. Issues and people to manage those issues are increasing seemingly exponentially. I keep up with most issues but sometimes don't know all the facts. We have a election coming up here and even though there are tons of yard signs telling us to go one direction I will not vote according to someone else's wishes. Another big problem is that people are either too busy or too lazy to learn all the facts and even when they do there are still hidden externalaties. This is not a us versus them scenario. We are in this all together.

@JackPedigo no, I argue the underlining problem with the system is that it's corrupted to work for the ruling and corporate class. It seems complex because that's the way they need to sell their purposeful derelict of duty. You have to believe that they are representing you to be fooled into complexity. If you're one of those people then you're overlooking the scores of evidence provided by various professionals within economics, sociology, and investigative journalism who have provided more than enough evidence to expose the truths of both parties and the results of their purposeful incompetence. Quit making excuses for them.

@William_Mary If that is the case where is the evidence? Instead of giving an opinion one should give proof.

I do not and will not believe that money and power is the root of all our problems. Too many of us is and this is clearly seen in other species. We are not different from other life forms. Also, evolution (all) gets more complex over time. It's how we humans evolved from single celled organisms.

@JackPedigo use the god dam group for what's it built for. I'm done combatting with you. You're a waste of my time and a negative impact.