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Am I wrong for comparing the religious to Nazism?
They both only want to be around people who are just like them. They both spew hate speech & degradation to others not like them. They both wish for death of others not like them??? Am I the only one who sees the direct resemblance??

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kaychantell 3 June 6
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5

I feel Religions prepare the minds of children for hate & division by categories.

Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't; sometimes they do the opposite. You should be able to differentiate. Sweeping statements like religions=Nazism are not helpful - to say the least. They blur the vision and kindle strong emotions, but they do not contribute to understanding.

@Matias

I was in the religion very deeply. It is just like Nazism. If they could take over like Hitler & force conformity & death, they would.

@kaychantell I do not question your personal experience. But personal experience are just ... personal. You should not take your experiences to be representative for the whole thing, for ALL kinds of religion and faith.
We have got a lot of religious people who do NOT want to take over society and kill all infidels and put the skeptics into Concentration camps. Actually there are very few believers who nurture evil desires like that.
So, please, stop making silly comparisons.

@Matias
I've studied all the top 20 religions in USA. They actually have the same principles as nazism. exactly the same just different objects.

@kaychantell I agree with Matias. Clearly your personal experiences influence your beliefs.

@kaychantell OK let's give it a try. One of the core principles of Nazism is that there is one, only one superior race (the Aryans, The Nordic Race), and there is the vermin, the Jews, who must be exterminated in order to further the evolution of humankind. So tell me: Who, according to the, say, Episcopal Church, are the Aryans, and who are the Jews? And what have the members of the Episcopal Church done so far in order to get rid of their "vermin" once and for all? - - If your analogy holds water, the answer should be easy for you.

@kaychantell What experience you got in Nazism? I had lived in Germany, had German GF. Talked to many Germans including those that remember Nazi days. Is not Hollywood. Became friends with many Germans. I don't know what church did to you but is your cross... we don't need to help you carry it.

4

People are like people, any two groups will have similarities. To accurately distinguish two groups, it's necessary to give similarities and differences.

4

It would be more accurate to say that Nazism is like a religion than the other way around.

4

Fascism is the ruling class taking direct control of capitalism following a crisis.

All niceties such as democracy, law, culture etc are discarded. Undesirables are usually used as slave labour in the ruling class's factories and businesses. Dissent is crushed. It is the ruling class taking control.

4

Another atheist militant polling. Did you ever thought that hitler and malcolm x had a lot in common? hitler and trump have a lot in common. Most members of the nazi party were people like you, simply of another race. Many germans didn't knew what happened until it was over. Do you know what happened to the 1500 missing children separated from their parents that can't be located by the american government? Do you care what happened to them? Should the regular registered democrat or republican american be held responsible? Never met an american that didn't wished somebody was dead. Very possible everybody in the world want somebody dead and keep on wishing to the stars. Who do you want dead? christians, muslims? white devils? Somebody said this saying... "The criminal judges by his condition". I am an atheist that do not worry about any religion or any political party of another country in the last century. Nor do I wake up every morning looking to pick up a fight with the first cross I encounter.

I don't wish anyone dead. Yes I care about the children. I talk about it constantly. It pangs me that I'm helpless to stop it.

You wish people to die... Hmm says a lot about you. I've gone through a horrible life but I still don't wish death on anyone.

3

Yes, that argument is somewhere between a reduction to absurdity and Godwin's law. Everyone always wants to compare groups they don't like to Nazis and people to Hitler. It degrades your argument and causes more eye rolling than anything else.

Godwin's law made an early appearance here, eh? LOL

Well the Nazis wanted to create a brand like no other... They successful. So in that respect the German fascistes outperformed their Italian and Spanish counterparts despite the fact that generalissimo Franco outlasted Hilter by decades. Not even modern Islamo-fascists have reached the same level of brand recognition. To this date only Judaism, Catholicim and a few junk food providers and Nike have reached higher levels.

3

Both Professor Stuart Hall in 1979 and in 2004 by Dr. Laurence Britt wrote articles defining the major points in identifying extreme nationalism and or fascism, just as a thought experiment I took their criteria adapted and applied it to the LDS and to a lesser extent to religion in general

  1. An easily identifiable symbol to rally too.
  2. Specific terms/ code words or euphemisms exclusive to the group.
  3. Powerful and continuing expressions of belonging to a chosen or special race.
  4. Praising of a Mythological golden age of your ideology that give rights of rule by dynastic or spiritual heritage to all members and especially to leaders
  5. Being included in and party to sacred mysticism denied to less worthy others
  6. Physical Body Worship combined with reminders of spiritual unworthiness
  7. Disdain for the importance of human rights especially those of outsiders
  8. Suppression of the rights of the individual in favour of the group and the greater good
  9. Identification of enemies/scapegoats as a unifying cause 
  10. The supremacy of the physical and or spiritual power broker
  11. Institutionalised sexism 
  12. A controlled mass media 
  13. Obsession with internal security and or secrecy 
  14. Religion and ruling elite tied together 
  15. Power of corporations protected 
  16. Power of labour suppressed or eliminated 
  17. Disdain and suppression of intellectuals and the arts 
  18. Obsession with crime and punishment 
  19. Rampant cronyism and corruption 
  20. A pretence at democracy including Fraudulent elections or sustaining of the leadership 

If you accept the above as indicative of a fascist state then the LDS and to a lesser extent all religions are fascist institution.

Here's my tally for religion's in general

1 Yes
2 No
3 Yes
4 No
5 No
6 No
7 No
8 Yes
9 Yes
10 Yes
11 Yes
12 No
13 No
14 No
15 No
16 No
17 No
18 Yes
19 Yes
20 No

So, for me, it's 8 yes and 12 no. At 40% compliance, I'm just not sure you can compare a political party with a religious ideology.

@TheMiddleWay

Have you considered

1 Yes
2 No What about Papacy, divinity, Eucharist, redefining the word faith, Theology for example
3 Yes
4 Know how about the Pentecost is giving the rights of the true priesthood to the disciples and the line of ordination continuing from one generation to the next down to today, the great age of the kingdom of heaven on earth?
5 No Power of the priesthood? Miracle workers? The 5 spiritual gifts?
6 No Glorification? The rising of the dead in a perfected form at the day of Judgement?
7 No The right for persecution of certain groups on the grounds of religious freedom and conscience?
8 Yes
9 Yes
10 Yes
11 Yes
12 No, Vatican TV and Radio, Bonneville Media, endless Christian cable and radio and satellite channels, Muslim Radio stations, Catholic dominance in the BBC, Goldwyn Mayer films (Jewish), Warner Bros (Jewish)
13 No Vatican has the Swiss guard, the C of E has its own security force, Mosad, Police of Vice and Virtue
14 No The UK, Israel, Vatican City, state of Utah all in part are theocracies before you even start on the Arab states
15 No All religions are major business investors and owners
16 No Submission to religious authority is a common doctrine, work is expected to be volunteer or at reduced rates when it is for or in the name of a religion
17 No Anti-intellectualism is so common in religion it is a cliché art when not for the glory of god is profane
18 Yes
19 Yes
20 No General synods, callings from god, the appointment of bishops by governments

@LenHazell53
2) those are words that apply to that group (much like general, CEO, and Roadie apply to those groups) but are not code word or euphemism

4 I'm not familiar with that pentecostal tradition. But remember, mine was about religion in general and appeals to dynasty or rule by an appeal to golden age, to me, seems very much a LDS thing and is not at all common in other forms of christianity, islam or other religions.

5 I don't see how that is denied to the less worthy considering that in principle anyone can achieve those miracle if they believe or join the priesthood

6 I don't see how that is physical body worship which in Facism, as I read it, means that their bodys are perfect and strong

7 That should have been a maybe or 50/50 I admit. While christianity has always been about "love one another" and judeism has never had a problem with gays, it has always been a matter of interpretation, not religious law, to persecute people thus. For example, the use of the bible against blacks during slavery was also used for blacks and the bible reading to persecute gays is tenuous at best and not endorsed. Islam, however, specifically says that man on man sex is to be punished but doesn't say how nor talks (AFAIK) about women on women.

12 Present, yes. Control of mass media ala facism and state TV, absolutely not.

13 Present in the vatican and other centers of power, yes. But consider that the catholic cathedrals, the jewish synegoges and the islamic mosques lack all said "obsessions" so on the whole, no

14 Fair point. I was thinking of the US and my experieces in a facist state (Chile and pinochet) mostly in my answers but absoluetly, religous states exist.

15 The are, but the power of the corporation is not protected simply on their say so the way the state protects it in facism.

16 Not a suppression of labor in the way the facists do it.Volunteer or reduced reate work is always at the discretion of the worker, not forced, and the labor laws on them are not different than any other labor laws

17 It's only a cliche for those ignorant of the history of religion promoting he arts and and sciences throughout history. The muslim quaran in particular has a direct edict to explore the world scientifically while the contributions of christan patrons and churches to art in europe are clear. It's also the result of flat earthers and creationist who, by all accounts, are in the small minority considering the the vatican fully accepts evolution and even has a long time observatory for astronoy... hardly anti-intellectual.

20 None of those are fradulent elections on normal elections much like what we see in facism, where a person is fradulently brouht to power.

I would modify my score to 10/20 to account for human rights and religious states. So I'm not sure that being 50% facist has much meaning since you can do the same list for just about any group (atheist, football clubs, etc) and get at least a 25% facist score.

3

Ive never thought about it, but the similarities are striking.

3

It's best to not view people as a monolith, I think. For some, their religious views are tempered by rational thought. For others, it justifies the worst impulses. There are definitely parallels, no doubt about it! Still, many religious people fought those Nazis.

Humanity is attempting to be rational and civilised, but it's really hard to do. The cosmos is built in a way that would kill us in an instant. Nature is brutal and we are doing our best to be something more orderly than the mud we sprang from. Progress is messy, disorganised, and violent sometimes... but at least we are talking about it, seeing it, and realizing we could do better.

That's a start at something better. 🙂

3

There are very fine religious people like Rev. William Barber and Jimmy Carter. Any doctrine can be twisted to evil ends. The Nazis took parts of Christianity that suited them and used it for their own purposes.

2

I've been using the term "ChristiaNazis" for years. I coined it in college when I briefly became "born again" (sorta) and all of a sudden my "friends" were telling me I had to stop playing video games, get rid of all my music CDs that weren't Christian, and that my grandparents were in torment in Hell because they went to a United Church of Christ church.

In some ways religion is very much like Nazism. Some religious people feel that everyone should have to follow their views by law, regardless of what a person's views/beliefs are. They think that anyone who doesn't agree with them should be killed. That's not how a civilized society works.

2

It’s sort of like Nazism in devotion to authority, justifications for sadism, and strict loyalty. Nazism is ALWAYS murderous, however, while religious adherents can find softer interpretations which involve compassion, generosity, and love. Nazism is devoid of those traits. It seeks only to punish.

All the crusades & murders that both Christians & Muslims & Hindus & Jews have committed in the name of their gods both past & present....

Some of them can't kill directly now but do kill people emotionally & mentally every day. While in grander terms, our Christian government kills mercilessly & does great harm to children.

@kaychantell I hope you go back and study religion AND HISTORY. But this time leave your bias at the door. You have admitted to unresolved anger, go heal that first before condemning others in sweeping generalizations. (Note: I am neither proNazi nor proReligion).

@kaychantell "Our Christian government..."

Our constitution and its framers say otherwise: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

"The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus by the Supreme Being in the womb of a virgin, will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter. ... But we may hope that the dawn of reason and freedom of thought in these United States will do away with all this artificial scaffolding...." - Thomas Jefferson

"The government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion…." - U.S. Treaty with Tripoli, (approved unanimously by the Senate in 1797)

Moving forward, Rev. Bird Wilson in a 1831 sermon said: ”The founders of our nation were nearly all Infidels, and that of the presidents who had thus far been elected [George Washington, John Adams, Thomas Jefferson, James Madison, James Monroe, John Quincy Adams, and Andrew Jackson] not a one had professed a belief in Christianity."

Continuing, John Tyler (10th President), in an 1843 letter: "The United States have adventured upon a great and noble experiment, which is believed to have been hazarded in the absence of all previous precedent -- that of total separation of Church and State. No religious establishment by law exists among us. The conscience is left free from all restraint and each is permitted to worship his Maker after his own judgment. The offices of the Government are open alike to all. No tithes are levied to support an established Hierarchy, nor is the fallible judgment of man set up as the sure and infallible creed of faith. The Mohammedan, if he will to come among us would have the privilege guaranteed to him by the constitution to worship according to the Koran; and the East Indian might erect a shrine to Brahma, if it so pleased him. Such is the spirit of toleration inculcated by our political Institutions."

...and that only scratches the surface. PLEASE, lose the brainwash and open your history books.

@Meep70 While all that is true it means very little in today’s USA. The Pentagon is rife with Christian mindset and networks for promotion. Edwin Meese’s Federalist Society, heavy on Christian “values,” has put in place 3 of the last 4 Justices. We all know how much support Evangelicals get from the WH (this was even true under Obama but to lesser degree). We veered away from our Founders ideas some time ago.
@kaychantell; I didn’t say Christianity hasn’t committed atrocities. I said only that many Christians don’t. That’s different than Nazism.

@Ciravolostone other comments she's made on this post.

@kaychantell All that is true but doesn’t ALWAYS occur. Some adherents to such ideas become pacifists or more compassionate. I’m only saying that more loving occurances never happen with Nazism.

@Ciravolostone It’s frustrating to carefully type out thoughts that are then misread or understood. Happens a lot on the web. I’ve learned to drop sarcasm because it’s rarely understood without tone. It makes for better writing, I think, but also generates a lot of anger. These are angry times so maybe there’s a connection?

1

Nazism was essentially a religious movement. Under the Nazi regime Atheism was illegal. The motto Gott Mit Uns was on every soldier's belt buckle. The date that was chosen for the Reichskristallnacht, the event that started the progrome against the Jews, was Martin Luther's birthday.
[de.m.wikipedia.org]

1

NAZIism is/was a form of nationalism: fascism, control of opposers,...

NAZIims also included racial purity mandates.

islam is the best/worst example at the moment. The saudi jerks are less interested in religion for themselves, but they are nazis in the sense of controlling all who live near them. And they are interested in expansion: they are funding many muslim groups in europe, including mosques.

The talaban, isis, these are very similar. But, with less emphasis on racial differences.
.

1

Funny. I like DarkMatters.

1

Then, by your logic, atheists are like Nazi's as well:

"They both only want to be around people who are just like them."
You mean like the majority of atheists/agnostics on this site, who clamor to a website to only be around atheists?

"They both spew hate speech & degradation to others not like them. "
You mean like military atheists who spew hate speech and degradation to others who don't accept their atheistic views?

"They both wish for death of others not like them???"
Again, you mean like military atheists who envision that a world without the religious would be a better world?

"Am I the only one who sees the direct resemblance??"
It's called Godwin's law for a reason, because eventually, everything and everyone gets compared to hitler: "if an online discussion (regardless of topic or scope) goes on long enough, sooner or later someone will compare someone or something to Adolf Hitler or his deeds".

[en.wikipedia.org]

Nazis were Nazis and best not to try to compare anything with them with anything or anyone except other Nazi's. Such comparison will almost always be a false comparison and invoke a strawman fallacy, as I did with atheists above..

Nazis*. No apostrophe.

No I don't think agnostics are on this site cause we hate them. We are the minority. We are here for protection.

Atheist don't believe anyone should die for being different. Religious do believe it. They would execute all homosexuals if they could for example. They would also kill witches. These church folk are literally okay with killing in the name of their religion.

That's not atheism. But it is Nazism.

@kaychantell
"No I don't think agnostics are on this site cause we hate them."
Some are, just like some religious do. The point being that

"That's not atheism. But it is Nazism."
Some militant atheists share all the earmarks of nazis as do some militant religious.
But, the majority of atheists are not militant and the majority of religious are not militant.

That's why we shouldn't base arguments on stereotypes, as is usually the case when we compare something to nazis: stereotypes are usually built on taking the characteristics of a minority and applying it to the majority.

1

Anyone who believes that everybody who belives in a deity is a facist is probably a facist ?

I'm not saying everyone who is religious is a Nazi. Religious people are 90% SHEEP!!! LOL

The Religions are what I'm talking about. The teachings. The sheep will only do what their leaders tell them to do.

How do you think Nazism took over. People were agreeable & complacent with the retoric. And when the leaders could, they executed their hate & the absolute last majority of sheep did nothing.

That's what religion is. These sheep are taught hate as babies. Then they stand by and let disenfranchised groups be persecuted.

@kaychantell i hear bitterness and hatred in your rhetoric though

Lol, checkmate

1

I don't think religion comes anywhere close to Nazism, but I'll tell you one impression I've come to have over the last few years: religions are the Bad Guys.

0

I Would not directly compare, but I do remind people the fact that Hitler was a . According to the social peckikg order, the Jews were persecuted for other reasons than just thier religious vews, it was the fact that they, as a whole,had power and money and owned business, at a time the entire nation was in a depression. They were targets for political power. And money. Both of our political party's throw "Nazi" comparisons at each other, but never make the connection that Nazis were mostly s , the swastika was a symbol that Hitler used to see as a child in his church. I wouldn't say compare, but connect the two words

0

I grew up in a catholic family. I can't remember a time where I did not question what I was taught. I researched a number of books and theories, asking if Jesus existed, if he was married, had kids. Did he really die on the cross. I moved on to reading about many myths and other religions I am one of the few that will invite a Jehovah's Witness into my home.

People want to belong to a group that they have something in common with. We also want to trust the people who lead us. This is why we get people that in the extreme, develop the ability to kill what is not of their group. Nazism was concerned with murdering those who did not fit into a certain criteria.This was their purpose.

Religion is concerned with defining the meaning of existence and wants to convert others to their way. The killers are the ones on the extreme end of the scale. They are not the norm.

0

Nazi Germany was more than 98% christian. You are only wrong to bring in all the other religions which aren't always about disguising hate as love.

Religions do disguise hate as love because there are so many of them and only one is the right one. That right religion is always your religion.

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