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We have until the sun explodes to get out of the solar system that is our time limit. What advances in technology and now seeing aging is a disease rather than natural production we may in fact stop death all together giving us the time to achieve the knowledge necessary to save our species this is possible but religion will slow this progress to the point that even though the sun has a very long time before its eventual death the imaginary gods of man would have stumped the growth of technology to the point that we may not have the time to save ourselves. We no longer need A corn God or sun god or any other imaginary figure that to explain the unanswered questions we know why corn grows we know why the sun is what it is down to the elemental process that makes it a fusion reaction. Now is the time to shed the old ways of thinking. Fortunately most of the greatest Minds on the planet have no time for such fairy tales so we have made considerable strides in the pursuit of understanding but if we the people that hold truth before the dreams of men long since passed do not come together and shows that no religion has a monopoly on morality that's losing their ill-gotten foothold in man's heart then we may just not have enough time and in the great spend of space and time we will be nothing more than a footnote in the history of time except for there will be no one to record it we will simply disappear Now is the time to start the age of Reason.

Andrew8484 4 June 11
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Immortality is not a requirement to "achieve the knowledge necessary to save our species", it can simply be passed on via mechanisms like writing just like it's always been.

I personally think interstellar travel is less important than learning to build viable permanent self-sufficient habitats in space. Once you're freed from the restrictions of planetary existence, the survival of the solar system becomes more an annoyance than a fundamental problem.

The technological challenges there are huge, but smaller than multigenerational and certainly FTL interstellar travel -- and renders such endeavors less crucial. Even if the solar system as we know it no longer directly supports life, it's full of raw materials for us to make use of.

Personally I have no great problem with the human endeavor "disappearing" with no one to remember it. In some ways, it deserves to. I think in many ways it's a failed experiment, unless you look at the past as a sunk cost and the future as having hope. Kind of like life itself, I suppose.

For the first time in human existence we are no longer hunters and gatherers and venting even the wheel changed the course of history but still that's sort of knowledge could be lost as it has been lost before today's difference is manufactured technology on a massive scale and the instant distribution of knowledge across the "Civilized" parts of the world now one of our greatest assets can be exploited the brilliant child born in the wrong place is not subject to plow the field but now has an opportunity to study and investigate any knowledge that is already known and speculate on what might be never before in the history of man has man been able to ask a question and simply get an answer by Googling it we have all become instant geniuses the point here is the more we know the less we speculate thus less power given to The God Who has been made up in the time that it was. For example I one point we thought it God in his Chariot drag the sun across the sky everyday now we are taking what we know of the Sun and building Fusion reactors across the world Germany has the high hope so I believe in succeeding but the idea here is that a fusion reaction is not the mystery it is not a god and his chariot it is chemistry and mathematics so through knowledge we killed the sun god what God is next you may wander well the Sun God was easy he was only the goddess son we had but to master the sun to kill him now people say the gods are gods of everything so now we must learn everything to kill the gods of everything this may seem impossible to us but 200 years ago everything we know now would have been unfathomable to them in their time we would have been considered God's to them because God's are made by man through the questions they can't answer if you want to kill a God answer a question

@Andrew8484 Wow Andrew you need to start a new paragraph now and then.

I agree that we have reached certain tipping points that haven't been seen before in terms of knowledge, understanding, and tech ... if not always in wisdom. I take a good deal of hope in that too, but it cuts both ways.

A few thoughts: Immortality or even viable life extension would be the start of a great population crisis. Imagine a world where suddenly people stopped dying -- people won't suddenly stop having babies, so the world population shoots up. It will turn out to be a disaster.

The craft for interstellar or even just interplanetary space travel will be so expensive it will be an escape from earth for only a few. Think of how expensive a nuclear submarine is, which is the nearest thing we have to an actual space ship.

There is no sign of the technology we need to propel large vessels in space. For example anti-gravity would be a good start. Except that we don't even know yet how gravity works.

It’s still all a long way out. We need to solve the problems here on Earth.

@Denker Actually birth rates drop in response to a number of things (education levels, economic influences) and I strongly suspect they would drop in response to immortality. What would be the rush to have children if you can have them whenever you please?

Children are a buzz-kill, so people won't have them on a whim and they won't have a "ticking biological clock" in the mix overriding their better judgment.

Remember that in the 1970s there were dystopian predictions for population growth that should have consumed us by now, and haven't.

I don't deny that biological immortality will be uncharted territory but society is a complex system, and complex systems are remarkably resilient. It isn't so simple as linear projections from current trends.

In my view anything that reduces human suffering and increases options and flexibility is not to be feared.

While I agree in principle that we "need to solve problems on earth first", space exploration is hardly the cause or the exacerbation of those problems. There is no shortage of $$ to fix the problems, and not even any shortage of knowledge. There is just a shortage of will and discipline and difficulties with delayed gratification. The US health care system is a prime example. It's by FAR the least cost effective. We could cut poverty massively AND fund a space program, and then some, by fixing that ONE problem. Indeed, some other countries have gone a long way in that direction already. Another example is mass incarceration for trivial crimes, disproportionately for minorities. Fixing that one problem even halfway would not be difficult conceptually. It's just willful ignorance and religious dogma holding us back.

In light of that, spending 1% of the GDP would restore the US space program for example to kick-ass levels of effectiveness and would move the human enterprise forward. It would be easy to cut 3% from the GDP at the same time just in terms of waste and spend it on the poor, but ... again ... lack of will. However ... one can plausibly argue that technological knock-on innovations may well put that much right back into the economy.

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Interstellar travel is not our future. the distances and our frailty ensure that. I believe our next goal is dimensional ascension.

Artificial gravity would stop the bone decay and muscle loss and manipulation of gravity waves could easily Propel us through space fast enough to reach other solar systems as far as other dimensional planes the only theoretical physics that allows for this is the theory that's a big bang was initiated when two separate universes touched for an instant. I don't subscribe to this Theory but I will say extra-dimensional playing seems a lot harder than artificial gravity in gravity wave manipulation

@Andrew8484 Artificial gravity, to be truly like the real thing, would require very large space habitats. Then we'd have to solve the problem of radiation exposure over time, and make such habitats lavish enough to not be a hardscrabble existence, to meet the long-term psychological needs of the species. These things are all doable but will take some time.

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None of us will see the fruits of our labor but if we can fight off the ignorance of religion long enough we may be able to carve out one little stepping stone to add to the many Stepping Stones needed to conquer all that is and all that we may make of it. Survival is the goal here people if you saw the tree falling and knew if you did not step out of the way you would die you would step out of the way just because our tree that is falling will not hit us for billions of years does does not mean we should not prepare to step out of the way even if our contribution is miniscule it is necessary I do wish I knew if we would make it or not will we escape are exploding star only to face the same problem in our new solar system many billions of years from now maybe but we must try and the best we can do is show the ignorance of religion the best speeding up the progress of science

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No worries. I'll be gone before that happens !

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Don't think I can hold it together long enough to see the out come of that scenario.

azzow2 Level 9 June 11, 2018
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