I'm wondering about this Jesus thing, He was born and it was celebrated and they still celebrate it. He died at 33 and they celebrate that even to this day. For someone so celebrated what was is life like in between life and death. I don't remember reading or hearing anything about it
6
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Feel free to reply to any comment by clicking the "Reply" button."For someone so celebrated what was is life like in between life and death. I don't remember reading or hearing anything about it" - there's quite a bit of stuff in the Bible about it. I don't recommend reading it, though - it's kind of the worst superhero fiction ever produced.
Jnei
Level 8
June 13, 2018
7
They say he was a carpenter but I haven't seen any of his work.
He might have gone fishing a lot too.
CallMeDave
Level 8
June 13, 2018
4
Looking at the Bible from a skeptical point of view after having studied it for half my life I have become a mythicist. If one reads the Bible in chronological order, as it was written, he gets a completely different point of view. Paul wrote first and then Mark, Matthew and Luke with John last. Also consider that none of the Gospels were written by the people whose names the accounts bear and they were written 40-70 years after Jesus was supposedly crucified. Consider that Paul’s Jesus was a heavenly person and he never talks much about his earthly life. To the skeptic the miracles in the Gospels are fictions so we can remove them. Then the contradictions make them seem like fiction and what little is left is pretty superfluous. Much of what he said is taken from older sources such as the golden rule and what little else that remains isn’t that profound.
Scholars question whether Homer, King Author, William Tell ever existed. There is just not any concrete evidence that Jesus was any more real. For those that tell me to do research, believe me, I have spent way to many hours and days on the subject.
gearl
Level 8
June 13, 2018
3
Scholars also question wether some of Shakespeares plays were written by Marlow, but they don't deny the existence of Shakespear ?
For the FACTS, you guys might want to check out Sam Harris’ recent podcast “What is Christianity?“ with Bart D. Ehrman, author of Misquoting Jesus and How Jesus Became God.
Ehrman is a professor of religious studies at the University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill, and a leading authority on the New Testament and the history of early Christianity.
kerrys
Level 5
June 13, 2018
2
Jesus
the supposed truth
1 Virgin Mother alleged to have been raped by a god
2 Born 4bce and 8ce
3 Family ran away to Egypt, or didn't
4 At twelve years ran away from home, got lost in Jerusalem, found again
5 at about 30 became an itinerant preacher, conjurer, healer and story teller
6 associated with known terrorists pissed off the Romans
7 Preached heresy pissed off the Jews of every denomination
8 Assaulted legitimate business people in the Temple pissed of the secular government
9 Refused to lead a revolution and pissed of some of his own followers
10 Was betrayed by his own people
11 Tried and executed by crucifixion
12 Probably poisoned to spare him pain
13 Buried and body snatched
14 Someone started claiming to be him come back from the dead, but unrecognisable even to twin brother.
That's it, and that is stretching it a bit making some supposition, induction and deduction.
LenHazell53
Level 9
June 13, 2018
1
Jesus of Nazareth is a myth. There is ZERO contemporaneous evidence that he ever existed. Everything about him was written decades later by people who never met him. Nazareth didn't even exist until the late 3rd century.
ldheinz
Level 7
June 13, 2018
1
The crucifixion is well documented in Jewish and Roman literature, so your assertion that there is ZERO evidence is incorrect .
Wikipedia has a thorough article on the subject.
Why does it matter? Myths are often built up around people who actually lived. Anyway, many of Jesus’s teachings, as reported, seem very admirable to me. He is reported to have said that he should not be called master, but brother—also that whatever he did, anyone can do.
Not so admirable was his belief in hell. Also the stealing of a donkey upon which to ride into Jerusalem so that prophecy would be fulfilled—hmm...not so admirable.
There is ZERO documentation of the crucifixion from that time. The bible doesn't mention it until the 80-120 CE timeframe, and there is no mention of it outside the bible until well into the second century. Your assertion that it is well documented is a xtian lie used to con the marks into baseless belief.
Also, please note the other gods who died the same way. Jesus is a standard boilerplate sun god myth. Also, the fact that you don't think it matters is proof that you don't care if it's right or wrong. But, of course, not caring about right and wrong is a common trait among xtians.
@ldheinz I think William is referring to Tacitus and Josephus both 1st century historians, neither of whom had any time for christians but both mention the crucifixion of Jesus by Pilate. ?
The Josephus reference (94 CE) is a proven 3rd-century forgery by Eusebius and doesn't mention the crucifixion, and the Tacitus reference (116 CE) doesn't mention the crucifixion either.
Apparently he was a pretty halfassed carpenter. There's little talk of him working...mostly just bullshitting with his posse. Might have been on welfare.
Secretguy
Level 7
June 13, 2018
2
Ancient Roman welvarende wasnt much outsider of Rome itself, times must have been bad if he was relying on that.
He was a bit of a smartass child apparently, but until the age of 30 he did nothing of interest. Then he found he had some talent for public speaking and went on a three-year speaking gig with a bunch of his groupies which culminated with him falling foul of the local civic and religious authorities and resulting in his death.
He made a very brief comeback tour, after which he passes from the record.
Gareth
Level 7
June 13, 2018
3
Nope, he performed miracles as a child according the press releases. He disapeared for a while to avoid the draft. But he toured incognito until he ran out of money.
Based on some of the information I've seen lately it begins to seem more and more likely to me that Jesus, the man, never really existed.
Richard Carrier is a useful reference on this. I have seen his talks that are posted online but I have not read his books.
marmot84
Level 7
June 13, 2018
2
Yeah I'm a mythicist myself although it's no problemo for me if Jesus happens to be a real person or based on one. There isn't any % solid proof either way. But I lean strongly away from it, mostly based on internal evidence.
Dr. Carrier's book using Bayesian logic to evaluate the claim of an earthly life for Jesus is fascinating and incredibly thorough. That said, it doesn't matter to me one iota whether there was an earthly Jesus any more than if there were an earthly Ivan or Pedro. I can grant that and it does nothing to substantiate any of the fantastic claims made about him. The religious are still left with nothing but myth.
My grandmother believed that Jesus somehow came to what is now America to teach the Native people.
I personally find it very interesting that the leading historians of Jesus' day never mentioned him. If he was so popular and preformed all those miracles, you would think there would at least be a line or so in their missives.
kiramea
Level 7
June 13, 2018
2
Lds or lsd?
@LenHazell53 Actually she was Catholic.
@kiramea
Odd, it is a doctrine peculiar to the LDS church, but I suppose the idea would be generally comforting to Americans as a whole.
@LenHazell53 She was a strange bird. She also believed that when we die or souls somehow transported themselves to the Crab Nebula. That's where she believe heaven was.
@kiramea
She had definitely come under the sway of Mormons, it is a Mormon belief that God lives on a planet orbiting the Star Kolob, in Mormon books pictures of the Crab Nebula are often used to illustrate this, seems she got half the story and latched on to it.
@LenHazell53 If she did, she did it subconsciously. She was a devout Catholic, and from all indications believed that all other religions were of Satan. It really doesn't matter to me, I actually found our talks about it fascinating.
Which leading historians of the day are you referring to? Just curious. ?
Why, exactly, are you wasting one moment of your precious life wondering was jeezus real? What difference would it make? Was Gilgamesh, or Vishnu, real? How about Zues? Buddha was real, but would that be enough to make you be a Buddist? Just fail to see any relevance.........
AnneWimsey
Level 9
June 13, 2018
1
probably for the same reasons anyone contemplated history, specifically ancient history - or anything for that matter... out of interest and curiosity.
why is it ok to be curious about how many stars there are in the universe, or delve into the character development of one of Shakespeare's characters and not the particulars of some dude that may or may not have lived long ago that some people now actually base their life on.
why should one put a limit on curiosity?
@scurry because stars & characters in Shakespeare do not do actual harm and require no "faith" to explore? You seem kind of xiang trollish to me. Making me presuppose the existence of something so i can then "discuss" it is odd.....
@AnneWimsey I literally just compared jesus to a fictional character from Shakespeare. Not sure how that would suggest to you that I think he's real. Sounds to me like you've got a huge chip on your shoulder. You wanna call me a troll, go right ahead. You wanna think I'm a jesus freak, be my guest. I don't care.
What I did was defend someone's curiosity, when you mocked it as a waste of time.
Is there anything specific that you are wondering about? I was once a minister and my family has a lot of ministers in it so I studied Jesus a lot. I heard about him from day one. Learned a lot about the mythology that surrounded his life or possible life. (lots of debate on whether he lived or not and I don't think it really matters) If there is, let me know and I'll try to help you understand the best that I can.
Hereticinme
Level 4
June 13, 2018
1
@Boogey For many of us it was taught as truth from childhood. We weren't given the means to research it for ourselves or to ask questions. We were taught that reading certain books or listening to certain people would lead you away from the faith so they were forbidden. If there was a question that could not be answered it was answered "We don't understand God" or something similar and there was an underlying "you don't question God, the church or the Bible" with that. It is very much a cult like atmosphere that is accepted by many people as being "normal". I didn't really start questioning until I got away from my family and I was able to read and listen to the forbidden materiel. It still took me years to deconvert because of all the brainwashing that had taken place. Hope that helps to answer your question.
Not sure what you're asking. The gospel accounts -- which, due to their fabulist nature, are not very believable -- cover his birth, touch lightly on his childhood, and then jump to about age 30 and go from there to his death. They are not big on character development, more about what he said then why he said it other than more fabulist claims -- that he was god incarnate, etc. The gospels walk a fine line because they are attempting (for the most part -- there are some inconsistencies between the authors) to portray Jesus as the embodiment of Christian dogma they were putting forth as approved orthodoxy. Namely, that he was fully god and yet fully man. They can't humanize him too much or he won't seem divine. They can't deify him too much or he won't seem human.
What survives, to my eye, is a rather one-dimensional puppet figure, and not always a very sympathetic one, either. At one point he irritably curses a fig tree for not having fruit for him to eat when he was hungry. And it wasn't even fig season. If you saw someone act like that, wouldn't you know just about all you want to about their true character? What a buzz-kill!
mordant
Level 8
June 13, 2018
2
Its doubtful that this person called Jesus actually existed. There are no secular writings about him. Bible stories were written long after his death. The longer time goes by, the more we forget so what was written was not seen first hand. I think Christ describes a state of mind.
FarahWonderland
Level 3
June 13, 2018
2
Not a factual account by any means, but Christopher Moore wrote a book called "Lamb: The Gospel According to Biff, Christ's Childhood Friend"
It's one of my favorites and the author tells (according to him... and Biff) what Jesus did during those lost years. It's pretty funny.
RottenArsenal
Level 5
June 13, 2018
1
Also for a good laugh listen to John Prine's song "Jesus the Missing Years". BTW. I love Christopher Moore. You are the second person to suggest this book so I've got to get it. I love his book Sacre Bleu
One basic fact that is often overlooked was that 33 was considered the life expectancy of the period. He would have been an old man when he was executed. Also, note that historians have changed the start times for history from BC (before Christ) and AD (Anno Domini) to BCE (before the common Era) and ACE (after the common era).
JackPedigo
Level 9
June 13, 2018
1
If 33 was the life expectancy it was only because of childhood mortality. I don’t think a person of 33 would be considered old.
@WilliamFleming You're right. Childhood mortality skews the average. (but I did notice he used B.C. of course this was a decade and a half ago so the new terminology had not caught on).
Jesus is a literary vehicle for religious allegory. Please, ignore the ignorance-validating agnostics who unwittingly perpetuate the scam by insisting Jesus doesn't matter. He was derived from the Joshua myths, Joshua Ben Jehozedek (Jesus, son of Jehovah The Righteous). from Melchizedek, Joshua, son of Nun, another likely mythical Jesus- Jesus Ben Ananias. He is written from Romules, Moses, and many other myths including the Homeric epics and others like Gilgamesh,w hich influenced greatly much of Western religion.
I just interviewed my friend, bestselling auhtor David Fitzgerald- Jesus, Mything In Action. Check the channel and buy Fitzgerald's 'Nailed' , THE great first Christ Myth Theory book.
I am working on my first book- Magic Jesus -And The Wizards Of God, editor Edwin Herbert- author Mythos Christos.
Skeptics is at
NewSkeptics
Level 2
June 13, 2018
1
I'm pj robinson look for Skeptics YouTube, please.
Jesus Allegory of the Sun.
Jesus was a culmanion of People. Consatine had the text writtin when He allowed Christianity in the Roman Empire to be legal. Much of the Bible came from Egypt and Greece stories with so much more coming from the Korain.
pepperstrat56
Level 4
June 13, 2018
0
The New Testament predates the Koran by a good bit.
Those saying there is no evidence of his existance or secular mention of him are simply wrong. Josephus' Antiquities mentions him, his brother James and John the Baptist. Whilst his works have been translated by christian scholars whom experts would say have added the messiah dimension to Jesus' character the rest of the text is accepted as accurate
SimonCyrene
Level 7
June 13, 2018
1
All written by the church and not by anyone that has no self interest in it being a genuine story
@Simon1 i have no problem with people wishing to discredit religious fallacies but they do themselves no favour when they display such blatant ignorance because they are too lazy to do simple research. ?
@SimonCyrene oh like the head of Oxfords religious history department ?
@Simon1 oh seriously, just do some bloody research. Your arrogance in the face of your own ignorance is quite simply breathtaking, and becoming extremely irritating ?
@SimonCyrene pot kettle ...I've done lots of research into it and put that argument to bed a long time ago
@Simon1 Josephus was a pharisee and a supporter of the Romans, he despised jewish nationalism which both Jesus and John the Bapitist would have been associated with. He certainly would not have seen Jesus as the messiah, but as a contemporary historian he could not disclude him from history. But you would dismiss this and all the subsequent work of all the other historical scholars and ask readers to believe your version of events based solely on your bias. As i said, breath taking ???. You give atheists a bad name.
@SimonCyrene the Romans were the ones who write the thing so they could take control more and everything that was written was 100 years after he was supposed to have lived so they couldn't have known him !!!!
@Simon1 with every comment you display your ignorance and still you can't stop yourself. It's becoming pitiable ?. You confuse the writing of the gospels with the edicts of Constantine and obviously know nothing of Joesphus who was a contempory of Jesus. And yet ... google ... but no, still you spout your naive nonsense. One last time, and then i'm done. Do some research! ?
@SimonCyrene trust me I'm not the one coming across as a pompous twit
@Simon1 trust you lol. Based on your assertions, i hardly think so. Pompous of me to point out your shortcomings? Possibly, but i gave you plenty of get-out clauses. Isn't it more pompous to arrogantly state as fact something you have no real knowledge of but steadfastly refuse to educate yourself on? But i am done here. I 'cannot educate a fool'.
Enjoy being online again!
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