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"Left-wing and right-wing political ideologies have themselves become secular religions, providing people with a community of like-minded brethren, a catechism of sacred beliefs, a well-populated demonology, and a beatific confidence in the righteousness of their cause."

Steven Pinker in "Enlightenment Now"

Matias 8 July 13
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0

Political parties, as well as soccer clubs all have the structure of religion: doctrines, beliefs, texts, rituals, experiences, testimonies, symbols, and art

1

Indeed. Always have been. The un-nerving matter of the moment is that they are both taking central ground and destined to align as one autocratic force i.e. no opposing forces to keep it in check

0

Neo-conservatism and neo-liberalism has somehow fooled and/or morphed conservatives and liberals into thinking they are conservative and liberal ideologies. The neo-ideologies are both for the 1% and deregulation of corporations. They are not for the "lower classes". These two "new" groups and the effect they have had on voters is very weird and disturbing. I don't expect much from voters these days anyway.

2

I broadly agree that there is a similarity between religion and political ideologies: just look at the purity testing that occurs on both the far left and the far right. Maybe a better term to use is a cult? Myopic ideologues behave in a similar manner to the devoutly religious when you challenge their worldview: either they shut down the conversation or they just make up claims as they go without evidence. I’ve had this happen to me a few times on this site. It is a shame, but it is also just human nature. People need deep convictions to hold onto to give them structure and meaning: having your worldview challenged is uncomfortable. I know that from experience and to their (the ideologues) credit it is a difficult process to go through.

3

Stephen Pinker is okay, but this is balls. It's so far from reality I can only believe he's being rhetorical. It's no better than saying science is a religion, or environmental activism.
Where are the sacred texts, the more-than-human prophets, the eschatologies? It's a painful, and pitiful, stretch.

Gareth Level 7 July 13, 2018

I don’t really agree with your analogy since political ideologies are not methods by which we derive truth. However, I do see your point as a matter of definition: if the word religion was replaced with cult would be inclined to agree with the statement? Or is there a more fundamental disagreement you have with the quote?

@Wavefunction What I'm saying is that not all ideological frameworks are religions. Religion is a particular type of ideology and it's lazy to lump political, or economic, or philosophical beliefs in with it because they contain a certain amount of self-reference. I forgot to mention rites and rituals in my earlier post, to give another example.

@Gareth Fair enough, just because someone subscribes to a particular ideology does not mean they will take it to a pathological extent. For example, I am a classical liberal, but I’m not a pathological individualist like say an anarcho-capitalist might be. Individualism is a very strong idea in liberal ideology, but there are other factors to consider besides ones self. I think it is fair to say that some people do become pathological adherents to ideologies regardless of whether they are political, economic or whatever other category of ideology there might be. This is why I suggested referring to such groups that are pathological in their adherence to an ideology as cults since they do share many similarities.

Rigidity in political positions might be somewhat more flexible than religion over time but they're still intolerant of dissent.

As for prophets, Trump, Sanders and Hillary became nearly unquestionable fairly quickly

1

You can look at the extremes on both sides and this bears out. The right wing overtly and regularly conflates political ideology with religion, even in their mainstream. I see less of that on the mainstream left, and more flexibility regarding policy issues based on facts. But the quest for ideological purity cuts both ways.

zeuser Level 9 July 13, 2018

Maybe it’s because lately I’ve been focused on the demand for political correctness from the left but lately I’ve seen a lot of it even in the mainstream left: again this is most likely because I’ve been focused on because I used to be on what some might consider the far left and I started to see the trapping of a religion forming and myself behaving like the evangelicals I so despised. Of course this stuff happens on the far right a lot: I saw ten plus years of it when I was a little communist teenager. I think the center is where people are having conversations and it’s good to see a strong center forming and taking people away from both of the far ends of the political spectrum.

3

Maybe so, but the left's ideas are generally based on science and fact-based reasoning while the right is grounded on religious faith for which there is no independently verifiable supporting evidence. And when I say grounded I mean like a ship that has run aground. They are going nowhere. ?

1

I definitely think so, and I'm not happy about it. I just finished that book, and it made me feel a little better about the world, though obviously there are some large problems looming in front of us. I definitely lean to the left, but I'm skeptical enough not to take anyone's word for things without checking it myself.

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