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I think it's funny when me, the atheist, defends the Pope to people of his own religion. I'm finding myself doing this more and more lately. The poor dude is trying to bring the Catholic church into the modern times (or closer to it, anyway), to keep it alive, and all they just seem to hate everything that he does and says. I do sort of feel bad. Anyone else?

lslatt1 5 July 22
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30 comments

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6

I do admire the Pope taking baby steps to bring the Catholic church to a more enlightened attitude about human nature and social justice. And I will counter arguments of others who say he is "too radical" with "No, you just don't agree, stop labeling." But his actions only go so far, given the church's atrocious, damnable history of corruption, repression, and abuse. (Full disclosure: I am an atheist ex-Catholic.)

same... the atheist ex-catholic thing

4

I like Pope Frank compared to his predecessors but the Vatican has a LONG way to go before I give them to much credit.

3

I don't know. Has he come out and actually apologized for the decades of the church covering up and condoning child abuse (why mince words- it was rape)? Has he promoted women to the clergy? Has he gone about dissolving the massive wealth of the Vatican Bank and the Church as a whole and making it a tool to help the needy, or is the Catholic Church still just a money machine? Has he overturned the Church's ridiculously antiquated opposition to birth control, which is especially hurtful to those poor he professes to care about the most?

Until these steps are taken, I don't see how his "modernization" is any more than cosmetic. Beyond which, I don't believe in his God, obviously.

3

Not at all...let them crumble !!!!!! Sinead O'Connor tried to warned us more than 30 years ago and she was crucified for it. It's about time all that crap goes away for good and forever

Wait- she was crucified?!? I must have missed that... you'd think that would be big news.

@Paul4747 figure of speech, and yes she was.... Only because she ripped in half a picture of John Paul II... She was probably the first to make a stand against child abuse. Her carrer was almost ended because no one would belive her. Well, we have come a long way with lots of child abuse cases fully documented and best to my knowledge, she has not received an apology, which she greatly deserves.

3

I'm with you. He seems to be a truly compassionate and realistic man.

Dew25 Level 7 July 22, 2018
3

I know right? I'm liking Francis WAY more than Benedict, and Francis is working his ass off to try and change the public perception of the Catholic Church.

It's almost like they can't handle any change because they've been indoctrinated for generations to believe that change is bad because God was right the first time and trying to change anything is admitting God made a mistake which is impossible so the Church can't change.

3

He does seem to be trying to actually follow the teachings of jesus which by and large are damn good whether a theist or not but he's still the head of the catholic church: a repressive, controlling and corrupt theistic organization with too much power.

3

If I don't think to deeply about the Catholic religion as a whole, I like the guy.

3

I am quite fond of the new pope. He's great!

Sirena Level 7 July 22, 2018

@eyespop exactly.

Good quote:

“But what is scandal? Scandal is saying one thing and doing another; it is a double life, a double life. A totally double life: ‘I am very Catholic, I always go to Mass, I belong to this association and that one; but my life is not Christian, I don’t pay my workers a just wage, I exploit people, I am dirty in my business, I launder money …’ A double life. And so many Christians are like this, and these people scandalize others. How many times have we heard — all of us, around the neighborhood and elsewhere — ‘but to be a Catholic like that, it’s better to be an atheist.’ It is that, scandal. You destroy. You beat down. And this happens every day, it’s enough to see the news on TV, or to read the papers. In the papers there are so many scandals, and there is also the great publicity of the scandals. And with the scandals there is destruction.”

2

He’s moderate in some regards. Let’s keep in mind that his predecessors set a very low bar. If he wants my praise, he can start by rooting out pedofiles and giving women equal standing in the church. Or abolish his position entirely.

Marz Level 7 July 23, 2018

Exactly! It's easy to come off as anything better compared all previous popes. Get rid of the kid didlers and do a heavy marketing push of how the church embraces evolution, then I might raise an eyebrow in a positive way.

2

I advise that you not be fooled by this Pope and his trickery. He is not reforming anything. His public utterances about gay people or atheists etc are carefully worded to mean nothing. They have no legitimacy as church policy, and he knows it. Moreover his apparatchiks walk back what he almost doesn't say when the mainstream media aren't looking. His so-called struggle against the traditionalists in the church is pure papal spin; he is 'playing' the kitchen Catholics and so-called liberal Catholics who are desperate for any excuse to stay in this church, more for reasons of ritual and identity than serious belief. Dig deeper into the church and you will find oppression of those to seek to seriously reform this church, at ground level. No committed atheist should want to defend this pope and church.

2

No, the catholic church should fail and stop controlling peoples minds. Defending the pope and a religion that subjugates millions is sickening.

1

After reading the comments from others here I feel that they are either with you or totally against you (with a few middle of the road). All have their own arguments to back up their stance but none more powerful than for the Pope to not do much about the previous many years of child abuse/rape from the clergy. Fortunately I never witnessed any of this taking place in my own church (the priests were of the Franciscan order - I just loved their robes! Lol). Actions speak louder than words.

jsbach Level 5 July 23, 2018

I mostly see here strongly against. I feel that some need to temper their black and white thinking. For some, the sexual abuse issue may literally be the only thing that matters. It is crucial! But others may want to check their prejudice at the door and actually examine the good as well as the bad. It does not help for liberals to have closed minds. Leave the blind hatred to the conservatives.

Blind love of course too. If conservatives did not have 100% black and white thinking they could never support Trump. Before Trump, the people who support him now would not say they wanted us to make enemies of our allies and allies of our enemies, for instance. But I digress!

1

As popes go I like him better than most, mostly because of the look on his face when he stands near Trump.

1

Yeah I learned a long time ago not to talk about pope frank in a positive light here...it's dangerous apparently lol

That is indeed sad.

1

After all of the events caused by Catholicism, as well as the ones already set in motion, not to mention the existential future events that will happen. I like the pope, do not like the jesuit order, but i think this is a good pope.

I am with sorrow for the mass manipulation of Sovereignty as well as the common consciousness that began with Catholicism. They knew what they were doing. The Latin term for God derives from the Greek term Zeus.

Now 3 billion souls on the planet are willing to go to war and wipe everyone out in the name of the Hebrew/Jewish/Islamic/Catholic/Christian deity, to bring about the prophecy. And the Catholics Orders know what the truth is.

It is all in the History books and Esoteric Societies. The Jesuit order is Esoteric.

Etre Level 7 July 23, 2018
1

he seems better than most but hes still the head of an incredibly corrupt and backward looking orginisation that continues to hold humanity back at every chance it gets preying on the weak and poor for its own continued grip on wealth and power

weeman Level 7 July 22, 2018
0

Change within the Catholic church is no new thing, we are seeing it with a more literate population and better press coverage. The fact "god's" word keeps evolving from words which shouldn't have changed for roughly two thousand years, SHOULD be red flag for anyone with half a brain.

I'm glad things are becoming more progressive.

0

they need to turn Catholicism into a religious order that does nothing but act of stewards, tour guides, and docents to great art and architecture...

In the world of the future, being a Catholic Priest should mean that you have an Art History degree and know how to properly clean/restore and oil painting.

0

While I have liked a few of the statements given by him, he is still the leader of an organization that launders money via the Vatican bank, hasn't had any qualms with fascist dictators in the countries where his religion is the largest one and protects molesting priests.

0

I hope the Catholic Church goes away and an open press agency publishes all the secrets. It will probably be eye opening.

0

Catholicism has a similar uphill battle to fight with its own congregations and mantra. While younger xians are gonna be pro lining their faith up with more modern sensibilities, you will always have the old guard opining for the days of yore. I remember how one of my favorite profs really missed the full Latin masses. No interest in understanding what the priest has to say, he missed the mystery.

0

I absolutely love most of the things about the Pope that establishment Catholics hate. Not for that reason of course. The changes he has made to dogma are phenomenal in the course of history. As a Pope I will defend him to Catholics. But he is not perfect; far from it. He has taken a far right dogma and brought it a little left of center, on average. But there are many groups he has failed (I am sure they have been enumerated many times in these comments so I won't do so myself).

My hope is that he can learn, and I don't see why not. I don't see why people can't affect him. He learned or developed his current positions outside of the conservative dogma he was raised in. Thus he is capable of more empathy than any Pope or most Catholic leaders in the last 50 years. I believe his empathy can be turned in other directions.

0

I am a non-theist. But I help family and friends when I can. I have argued pro and con about religion. (I'm sort of a devil's advocate). I have many friends who are religious -- from the hard core to the softer core believers. And while I might agree with you on this Pope's words, from what my Catholic friends say -- it is simply lip service. The old men of the Catholic church will never allow the extreme changes that this Pope and previous Popes have said. They are too staid in their ways.

xyz123 Level 7 July 23, 2018
0

The current pope has a mixed history as his past has question marks. Still, when not speaking ex cathedra (ant this issue is important), he makes some comments that seem to question long-standing, biased dogma. Notice, however, when speaking ex cathedra, he does not really question.

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