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In G-d we Trust
I am a plaintiff in a case against the government printing “In God We Trust” on currency.
A major argument we will pursue is the burden that this imposes on non-believers to carry and exchange money bearing a slogan that violates their religious (non)beliefs in order to complete cash transactions.The lower court stated that it does NOT impose a “significant burden” because you can just use checks or credit cards instead.

We are working to compile specific examples of situations where it is impossible to avoid cash to complete a transaction, or alternatively where it requires additional time and expense to avoid doing so.

What examples can you give where you have to use cash to complete a transaction or where not using cash would impose additional burdens/costs to you?

A2Jennifer 8 Aug 5
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38 comments (26 - 38)

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1

Maybe you can find current plaintiffs with current or prior instances of credit card fraud to show they have been defrauded and can only use cash. Or others that have real bad credit and due to current laws that let credit card companies charge outrageous fees and rates, can’t get credit cards.

4

I use cash a lot. It is easier and I don't have to worry about some thing or one tracking my spending habits. I also cross out the dreaded saying.FFRF is a part of this lawsuit and they offer a raffle to get clean money (no god crap) in exchange of "dirty" money. They also sell a stamp that will go over and replace the saying with "In Reason we Trust".

Glad to hear FFRF is involved.

3

Did you ever try to put a check on a parking meter?

Some do take credit cards, but most don't. Most cities aren't going to go to the trouble of upgrading in the foreseeable future.

Baseball park vendors.

JimG Level 8 Aug 6, 2018

And some street vendors (e.g. food trucks?).

2

Seems like a weak argument. And one that seems unnecessary for the argument pertaining to the establishment clause.

Having said that, I will add that not everyone has a bank account and credit cards. This usually is more true for people at the lower economic scale; certainly those living below the poverty line, but probably even some above it. Plus, not all businesses will take checks or credit cards. Chief among these are probably small local businesses. And what about yardsales and flea markets? What about a lemonade stand?

The court's saying that there are alternatives to cash seems to me to then make it mandatory for the federal government to make certain that non-cash transactions can be completed in all cases. This is a matter of ubiquitous alternative non-cash payment methods, not alternatives to which businesses one chooses to use.

0

Some vending machines take cards but the ones I use take either bills or coins.

Laundromats are a good example.

4

My cleaning person wants cash. Tipping bartenders! The tip jar on a performer's piano top (or sidewalk).

2

My yard guy only takes cash....
The vendors at farmer's markets generally only take cash
yard sales/garage sales only take cash
purchases from private sellers off apps like LetGo, OfferUP, and craigslist only take cash

we have a local Chinese Take-out place that is "cash only" and has the best prices because of that.

Private parties are not generally set up to take credit cards nor equipped to prevent check fraud.

0

Which God?
Proof that he exists.

The burden is me explaining to my children that this god guy is mythological.

Unless the court can prove he exists your honor.

If god exists, he could do something to prove it. He doesn't, so god either doesn't exist or he does not want us to believe in him. Therefore it is wrong to believe in god.

@ldheinz

I would put the burden of proof on the Court and the State to prove he's real.

10

Checking accounts and credit cards have fees associated with them.

There are "cash only" lines at various stores.

When paying a kid to mow your lawn or babysit, the kid usually doesn't accept plastic or checks.

In a diverse country of many faiths, which "god" does the currency point to? The religious phrase was not originally on our currency, and seems to violate the separation of church and state. Who would it offend to remove it? Nobody. The absence of a phrase can't offend, whereas the presence of it can.

I love your brain ?

This issue has been tried several times in court, and generally been lost on account of supposed "ceremonial deism", from what I understand. Yeah, it's BS, and unethical. And the "we" makes it a false statement and/or exclusionary. But it's important to realize that it is an uphill battle.

Who would it offend to remove it? Nobody.

This should be true, but unfortunately it isn't.

2

That has to be a tough sell that it is a “significant burden”. While I empathize with the cause, I can't say I ever give it much thought. This is part of a bigger battle against state sponsored and endorsed religion. Whether or not it's a “significant burden” to use the currency is a red herring which only deflects from the real issue; I think your approach should be to point this out. Good luck.

godef Level 7 Aug 6, 2018

Agreed.

The "In God We Trust" on money never has really bothered me. I never really have taken it seriously, and have never felt affected by it. It's just there, I've always felt.

However, I think your point about the government sponsoring or endorsing a particular religion is really important.

@MST3K that's nice for you I guess, but not everyone feels that way. However, unfortunately I think you do have a point that it will be difficult to convince the court of that.

On the other side of things, it reinforces religious believers'...beliefs...especially the Christian nationalists, with the idea that some have that the US is a "Christian nation". It encourages them to wave their religious dicks around, i.e. attempt to impose their beliefs and morality on others.

1

I'm not a US resident, so not able to provide any instances but I do have one thought. Why not strike through the word "God" on notes that pass through your hands? If this were made into a campaign, with hundreds, or even thousands, participating then pretty soon there would be a high number of amended notes in circulation. I don't know if this is illegal, but with notes constantly changing hands it would be pretty hard to prove authorship and would serve as a very visible advertisement that plenty of people reject the idea that religion and government should be mixed.

0

In Laos, if you pay in any currency but US (cash only), they penalize you by charging you more for your visa.

0

I had to buy my Sri Lankan visa with US dollars. They don’t accept any other form of payment or currency. I believe several countries are like that. The neighborhood ice cream truck only takes cash, I believe. Farmers market vendors may or may not take card or check.

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