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Why are Jews and Moslems granted much more deference (given a free pass) than Xtians in the U.S. by atheists?

iamjc 7 Aug 8
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9 comments

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1

I think it is a case of an unconscious minority solidarity to some extent.

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Sorry. Not everyone sees it this way. Perhaps you have left over religious ideas that "Christians will be persecuted."

2

Why do you think that's even a true assessment of the situation?

Why haven't you considered that most atheists in the US are deconverts from Christianity and are far more familiar with it than with Islam or Judaism? And encounter proselytizing from Christians far more often? And so that's the main thing they have occasion to address?

Why haven't you done a cursory Google for atheist critiques of Islam and Judaism and found the treasure-trove of them just sitting out there?

0

Jews do not attempt to force their beliefs on the societies they live in. Conversion is very rare and is initiated by the convertee. It takes years to convert to Judiasm. First one must learn how to read Hebrew, and interperate the Torah. Simply put, being Jewish is an ethnicity, and only those with a Jewish mother are concidered to be Jewish. Therefore, the faith is EXCLUSIVE, and is not promoted or spread like Christianity or Isam. Judiasm is also unlike the other two opposing religions because it was never forced upon others by the sword. Personally, I defend Muslims because they are being targeted, just like the Jews were by Christian antisemitism. To me, they are the new scapegoat. Both Jews and Muslims are in danger of discrimination, since they are both minorities, and religion tends to persecute minorities.

Anyone can convert to Judaism even without a matriarchal connection to the faith. They would arguably have more difficulty obtaining the rights of Jewish citizen in Israel and within certain Jewish organizations, but I could decide to convert to Judaism right now and begin the process if I wished to ... goy that I am.

My wife went to high school with a gentile girl who converted to a conservative Jewish sect in college and is still a devout follower to this day.

Ironically my wife, who has no Jewish blood, was adopted by her father's 2nd wife who was Jewish, and was therefore able to live and work on a kibbutz in Israel for a year or two after high school. So the political and cultural side of Judaism is a big deal apart from the religious side. Although to my wife it was just an adventure, and she did not maintain the cultural association particularly after that, she could have, had she chosen to.

@mordant Your assertion doesn't nullify the fact that conversion to Judaism is not solicited or even strongly encouraged by Jews. It takes about 2yrs., to study Hebrew, and translate the Torah, and finally be confirmed as a Jew. Conversion is possible, by only for those with a keen desire, and motivation toward the Jewish faith. The fact that someone could be adopted, and raised by Jewish parents also doesn't negate my statement that within the Jewish community, one must have a Jewish mother to be considered to be ethnically Jewish. Also, disbelief in god doesn't affect a Jew's standing within their community.

@friendlycatlady I totally agree that the vast majority of Jews do not proselytize, nor was I trying to suggest otherwise.

On the other hand, if disbelief in god doesn't affect a Jew's standing in their community, then Judaism is in that sense more a cultural than theistic religious phenomenon. Also I suspect that isn't a true statement for fundamentalist Jews.

@mordant Most Jews are Reformed, which is how I was raised. My mother insisted on giving me a "Jewish education", and belonging to a synagogue, while my father, a WWll veteran, who witnessed the Holocaust, and liberated a concentration camp, felt strongly about Judaism, but didn't seem to believe in any type of dogma, and disliked going for services. Mainly, we were instilled with a sense that we must cling to this heritage, BECAUSE we were a minority, and our people had suffered a genocide. For that reason, in my case, Judaism was sort of an affliction embraced out of duty and heritage, but also with pride. My sister, who was more prone to believing, did embrace the faith, but for me, there was no resonation whatsoever with biblical school. I basically let it go in one ear and out the other. Ofcourse, fundamentalists of any religion are a completely different story!

@friendlycatlady Thanks for the insight. This is good for me to know.

My other post listed my very limited familiarity with Judaism, other than this: my sister in law was a reform Jew whose widowed father was non-practicing. She was converted to evangelical Christianity in college. Her conversion was partly to satisfy my brother, who wanted to marry her but did not feel free to do so unless she was willing to convert. Maybe part of her willingness had to do with her not having the kind of awareness or sense of obligation, which perhaps her father failed to impart. It is ironic because her family came to the US via Mexico, where her extended family found refuge from the Holocaust, but she only became aware of this recently when following up some rumors / leads about her family when she had occasion to visit Mexico. I would imagine that family connections are very important to maintain Jewish identity, and her family of origin was kind of lacking in that regard, it seemed to me like a sort of isolated fragment. I always got the sense that my SIL felt a bit lost and disconnected and found belonging in the evangelical world that she lacked for whatever reason in Judaism.

0

non belief is much scarier than different belief....seemingly.

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An example?

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I would say (if we accept the premise that Jews and Muslims get a greater degree of deference) it has to do with population.

The US is an overwhelmingly Christian country.

Jew make up about 2.6% ( high range of estimate) of the population and Muslims about 1%.

Practicing or self identifying Christians make up between 75 and 80%.

Simply put, it is much easier to ignore the less than 4% of the population made up of Jews and Muslims than the 75% that is Christian.

3

I believe it's safe to say that the critics of Sam Harris would disagree with your premise. In any case, the focus should be on the belief, not the believer. I would rephrase the question, using Judaism, Islam and Christianity in place of the personalized approach you've chosen to take. That having been said, the negative impact of Christianity on our courts, laws and even school curriculums warrants highly focused fire, in my opinion.

1

Many Jews are cultural Jews and not overly or at all religious. As for Muslims, they get no free pass from this atheist.

gearl Level 8 Aug 8, 2018

True. In fact most Jews have become so assimilated that they celebrate Christmas! This may have something to do with the simplicity of Jewish beliefs, which is just the belief in a god. There is no emphasis on sin or burning in hell, and almost no mention of a devil. In fact, I am a secular Jew, but that doesn't exclude me from my Jewish heritage. As my mother put it, I still have a Jewish heart.

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