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When the boss & the boss' boss are super-religious (and the rest of the team is too...
Just came home from a company dinner. The conversation eventually moved to both religion and politics. I realized I was outnumbered 6 to 1 with religion and politics and just kept my mouth closed. That none of my team registered how uncomfortable I was bothers me, but that nobody acknowledged the HR issues of having this convo is even more disturbing (though, technically, not on the clock/not required, so it may not really be subject to HR laws/regulations) ...
I'm in Florida - where you can be fired for any reason & it doesn't have to be disclosed. I know I'm a very valued member of the company/team, but when your boss' boss announces he's born-again & 4 of the other members of the team start talking about how the important part is to find god & jesus, announcing I'm an atheist would be tantamount to asking to be fired.
I'm angry, frustrated, and sad about the whole thing... and (best part) I get to do it again tomorrow! (Normally I only deal with the people remotely, it's the first time in over 3 years we're meeting face to face) They'll all go back home Thursday, and I probably won't see them again for a bunch of years - I'll hold it together & stay quiet for the sake of my job & the children my income supports... but damn am I glad to be able to vent here! Thank you!!

Kirahere 6 Jan 17
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23 comments

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5

Any body that would fire someone for their lack of belief does not deserve your honesty ,so I would go along with the bullshit and tell them whatever they want to hear if it would help you to get a promotion etc .

I agree , If I made my feelings known to the people I worked with over the 25 years as an iron worker I probably would have been pushed off of a building that was under construction .I couldn’t give a crap if people enjoy believing in fairy tales as long as it does not effect me.

4

I hate when co-workers intentionally get you away from the job and off the clock to try to probe your mindset without fear of HR recourse.

don't think that is the case, here - I'm the only one of the team who is hourly & therefore off the clock - the others are outside sales people and managers who are expected to work any hour of the day requires... hmmmmm, I hadn't thought about that; they might not have been off the clock when this happened. I'll have to think about that!

4

I think it's good to vent, but try to not let it get to you too much. I've found when people go on and on about their politics or religion and I'm in no mood to engage with them about it, I can pretty easily focus on something else (e.g., my food, other activity in the room, cellphone) and if someone tries roping me into conversation about one of these topics I can just smile and say that I don't know much about it or don't think much about it. All the while, I mentally roll my eyes. Mild amusement helps greatly in dealing with the situation. 🙂

Envisioning the boss's boss with an ass's head or wearing a frilly tutu can however backfire if he starts talking of JC riding his ass or dancing for god. But there again ...🙂

3

I do not find it hard to ignore co workers when they talk about religion.It does not effect me . These are people you work with not your friends so you should take it with a grain of salt . Its just conversation not verbal abuse towards you . That would be a different situation.

when it's just coworkers I do just ignore it - this was my boss' boss - #3 in the company - not quite as easy to ignore it when he's sitting directly across the dinner table from you (and the rest of the table was filled with the team I support, not just random coworkers).

3

My thanks to everyone who took the time to comment - the support (heartfelt, funny, just "there" ) was all VERY appreciated!!!
Tonight's dinner was the opposite of last night. My direct boss was there, along with another level of boss, and/so conversations were about work, food, families, houses, the usual stuff. Lots of laughing and nothing remotely cringe-worthy (hooray!!!!). I'm still feeling uneasy around the high-up, but I only have to see him 3 times a year and can suck it up if I have to. Nice to be able to exhale finally 🙂

Good for you. Good luck with your life

3

Having worked in HR for many years, Kira, I would not even give a moment's thought, if it were me, to raising a topic like this with them. In the first place, the chances of the staff there thinking like you, are probably pretty slim; secondly, once the cat (I.e., your atheism) is out of the bag, there's no putting it back; third, if, as you say Florida is an at will employer, you may very well jeopardize your job. I think you're smarter here just enduring the relatively little amount of contact required with these people and retaining your employment, for your family's sake. Just my opinion.

3

All I have to add is...get used to it. I'm in Texas & I've never had a job where it wasn't either all or the majority Christian Conservative hypocrite a-holes. It's awful but I have been working for corporate America in Texas for over 20 years & this is just the way it is. My job of 16 years at the Crescent in Uptown Dallas was run by a woman who was not only a huge Republican Christian, she was also fucking almost every last man in the office, (who were all married w/children btw) she was also preaching as loud as she could about god up & down the hallways every time she had the chance. She also belittled me on an almost every day basis for the entire 16 years I stayed. She loved it...got off on it. In fact she went as far as buying a gym membership at my gym that I went to for my lunch hour just so she could sit on the cardio equipment next to me, not work out, but just sit there and say things to me like, "No man with any self respect would ever date you." No kidding. The bonuses were great & that was the only thing keeping me there. I went to the owner. He didn't believe me. A secretary down the hall that I had worked for when I was 19 years old told me that she had caught the effing bitch in the hallway with the owner one day before I ever started there & they were standing so close to each other that it almost looked like they were kissing. So based on that information it's probably safe to assume that she was effing the owner as well & that would probably be why he refused to believe me. The day the abuse turned physical was the day I started interviewing elsewhere. My current job is much better. The difference is like night & day but it is full of morality police & they pray over their lunches when we all go out for lunch together. It's gross as shit but I'll take that over what I endured for 16 years at the oil company at the Crescent. If there was a hell I'd love to kick that bitch right into the pit of it...Sparta style.

That’s one of the most horrible work stories I’ve ever read! I think I’d have secretly recorded her abuse. It’s ridiculous how people will really stick it to people in the name of their imaginary friend! I’ve felt a bit put upon during agency gatherings, such as holidays and things where they all join hands and pray, then when things adjourn, they divide and prey. During our “Diversity Days” wherein we were asked to perform if we sang, or share our ethnicity and its cultural nuances. Three people sang hymns, and another did a highly emotional evangelical rap performance (of which I found it difficult to discern between it and his prayer that opened the ceremonies). I remember thinking: “When the hell did I agree to go to CHURCH?!?” I’ve made my agnosticism clear, and no one goes out of their way to make me miserable about it, but they get that look on their faces as if you just told them you have a terminal illness. ? Most of the people touting evangelical piety are screwing any and everyone they can. It’s sickening, I can’t believe you lasted as long as you did. I couldn’t have done it. ??

3

Call in sikh.

HAHA

3

I'm listening and hear you loud and clear.

Thanks - I didn't realize how much I needed to see/hear that.

3

Gone thru this situation some times

I believe it, and I'm still sorry to hear it.

Me too, Janakiraman. In fact, I can't escape it. Every job that I've ever had in Texas has been full of hypocrite Christians. Sadly, I'm used to it & expect nothing less anymore.

3

Hi Kirahere,
what a terrible situation that must be,I have heard in the USA people can be fired or not get a job if they openly admit to being an Athiest.I have now been retired for 11 years,But I remember an instance in 1982 when I moved to a new area on Promotion in what was then the NZPO ei New Zealand Post Office.I had been promoted to a higher grade of Senior Telephone Technician working in the Automatic Telephone exchange in a place called Papakura and one of the people who was from there called me into a spare room and asked me if I was with Jesus and he did not know I was an Athiest so I told him I did not believe in god or Jesus and that was the end of that conversation,as He was the same grade as me he could do nothing about it and luckily my supervisor was also a Agnostic,but there were a lot of religious types in the NZPO but were powerless with regards to hiring or firing.

Lol @PeterJohn I applied for the job of bursary at a Christian school in Australia. We didnt even get to the topic of religion.
I was tossed out for saying that I was divorced.

in the US there are "right to work" states, but it's a misnomer - "right to work" means the boss has the right to fire you for any reason at any time (the law-makers had fun naming that law, so the people didn't realize it was corporations screwing them over) - so, yes, I could be fired for being an atheist if my boss wanted to... luckily I'm VERY good at what I do, and my direct boss is a genuinely good human being (who I like working for) - it was HIS boss who is the born-again and while I don't think I'd be fired, I do think I'd be ostracized and gradually see my perks disappear, my job change, and I can see being pushed out to the point where I'd have no choice but to leave.

3

I honestly can't believe how bad things are regarding this in the States... it's literally never brought up in England and if it is it's usually shut down pretty quickly as everyone knows it's a waste of time to bicker about it!

So glad I live in an irreligious country - people are much nicer!

2

Religion and politics talk in work environment, ugh. Much more a part of the culture in certain parts of the country. Glad you can vent here a bit. My first post on this site, so bear with me.

2

Negativeness is a killer, and religion is the harshest negative of all. While I admire your strength, please start actively looking for work somewhere that you don't feel like you are having to sacrifice yourself. Waking up each day dreading where you have to go, and putting up with what you feel you have to put up with, can make life miserable. There are quite a few athiest sites, and agnostic sites, put out feelers for your line of work, see what comes back. Good luck with your life, be good to yourself. Well, as usual, after reading the rest of your post and replies, realized my advice probably does not apply to you. Please dis-regard the un-informed, but well intended advice.

2

That’s a terrible feeling and somewhat frightening. I always thank about what Eric Hoffer said ‘Beware the true believer.’ Because they will kill you.

Iffy Level 5 Jan 17, 2018
2

I always use that saying, "There are two things to never discuss over dinner, "Religion &Politics."

ugh - I accidentally hit the "flag" button instead of the "reply" one - know I did not deliberately send the agnostic-police after you!!
And I did try, at the table, to say "I'm not getting into this conversation", when it was about religion - one of the guys LOUDLY joked "what about Trump? We've covered religion, now we have to talk politics" - so they did 😟

Hey, kirahere. I totally understand. People just have no respect. ????

1

I would bet that at least 3 of the 5 members attending were just lying to suck up to the boss ( whom may not be religious either , just having a private joke )
That's how I would see it , and find it quite funny . Contain the laughter when they start talking hocus pocus , now that would be a challenge .......but at least you can get to smile, and everyone just loves to see a big smile

1

Hope you can make it through gritting your teeth. Are the areas where these 'rewards' take place big enough to physically distance yourself from them or would that feel too rude for you? Another room with a TV to watch? Sometimes sporting events on TV are great distractions and since it's America sports do take precedence. Do you get to bring a +1 for support? You could resort to today's great distancer and play with your phone. I've been in this exact same position at my work. I'm a bus mechanic and usually it's racist, sexist or homophobic comments although I must admit it's gotten better over the years. Not really surprised but man, I keep hearing annoying shit about Florida. Minnesota still is not right-to-work-for-less but I'm a public employee and the upcoming Janus decision from the supreme court will probably seriously weaken public unions too. Whichever one of us moves to Canada first has to help the other one get there too. Deal? Take care.

My company's international HQ is in Toronto - I already have permission to move there whenever I want... of course I'd freeze to death in a matter of minutes (I went to college in Rochester, NY - an hour from Buffalo/Niagra falls/Canada border - I KNOW the cold up there way too well) ... but freezing may just become the preference to what this administration is doing! So, you've got a deal!

@Kirahere Would prefer Montreal but I guess Toronto is doable. 😉 Good luck!

1

Agonies of proletariat!!!

1

Did you have any better luck talking politics?

0

Damn... scary !!! Thinking how lucky I was to be a mfg rep on the road for lotsa years... made my own rules... never had to deal with the bs of conventional daily routines.
Somebody wrote... “ find a job you enjoy and you’ll never have to work a day in your life...”
I did... never looked back, no regrets (minimal) plus... thought I did good, did no harm along the way... maybe coulda/shoulda worked harder...

Not that this has anything to do with it... pretty sure I was an atheist long before I realized it.

... still miss my kids... other than that, am happy.

... another scary thing, all these horror you speak happened overnight (relatively) in the last 50 or so years.

Tomas Level 7 Feb 6, 2018
0

Very difficult situation.

When situations arise like that for me, I try to indirectly change the conversation as soon as possible.

Maybe "accidentally" knock over a glass or something.

Florida "Right to work" laws are terrible.

If it had been someone lower than the boss' boss, I might have said my line about the conversation being an HR nightmare a little louder, but with that much power & that much drinking, I know better... however, if it happens again, I do believe those water-glasses might be a little wobbly and oops (it's a decent idea, thanks Robert).

0

That is a tough one. Glad to see the second dinner was better. I don't know what your perspective is like. I came from a long line of believers, so at your dinner, it would have been very difficult for me to stay quiet. I think it's because of the realization of having the "wool pulled over my eyes" all of my early life, I want to shake others awake.

I'm 3rd (possibly 4th) generation atheist - religion has never been a part of my life - but I was a child in a town which was predominately catholic (95%) and by 3rd grade (7-8 years old) had to do battle with the other kids who were all going off to religion classes/communions/etc and gave me a hard time for not doing it too. I remember thinking "you love dinosaurs, that doesn't fit in with what your religion says", but I was way too young, outnumbered, and frightened to say anything... sadly, that part of my childhood turned out to be good training for that dinner.

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