3 0

I don't think Regan wanted Gorbachev to tear down the wall, just so we could use the pieces to build our own.

View Results
jondspen 7 Aug 27

Post a comment Reply Add Photo

Enjoy being online again!

Welcome to the community of good people who base their values on evidence and appreciate civil discourse - the social network you will enjoy.

Create your free account


Feel free to reply to any comment by clicking the "Reply" button.


The good people will be trapped behind the wall. The criminal element will just fly drones over the top of it.


While the Berlin Wall separated a city, this proposed Wall would be on an international border. Dividing East and West Berlin was the only way the Soviet Union could keep people in the city and outside influence out. The border wall won't work in the long run for the exact same reason why the Berlin Wall didn't work. People will adapt to the wall and find new ways around it. Besides, aircraft fly over the Mexico/American border every day. It really wouldn't be that hard to fly over, pick up people and fly back. Also, a good portion of the border is a river. One could just swim across at night. While I think people should enter the country legally, this wall and current policy/practices are not the answer. I think we need to figure out why these people want to come to the United States so badly and work to correct that. However, a major problem is that most Central American countries are quite corrupt and probably wouldn't allow us to help them with their problems. There is an answer to this issue, we just need to find it.

I'm not for them b/c way too many people struggle with working hard to earn citizenship from other countries, and illegals get to break the law, get government subsidies, and get citizenship without any type of work, struggle, or oath of allegiance. But I'm not a cold hearted bastard either, and realize they are trying to find a better life for their family.

1 - do away with government benefits to illegals. If they want to come to this country to work hard and contribute, we want that kind of person, but not support another countries poor. We have enough of that with our own citizens.

2 - allow illegals to work, but they pay into the current system, as well as an extra fee towards a new system that oversees passing the citizenship test in a reasonable time. Work and positive effort in this program opens some government benefits (minimum wage isn't live-able, even for citizens, so some help might still be warranted).

3 - allow companies to hire illegals, but they cost more than an american citizen or visa holder. Companies would also pay into the current system, as well as new system to support citizenship efforts.

I think if you remove the free bonuses, and all that's left is hard working people working for a better life, then the influx will stop/greatly diminish. If it doesn't, then we have WORKING people coming in, paying INTO the system (instead of being a drain), and many of the problems will be less severe.

I'm sure someone will call me a racist for presenting a logical compromise to the problem though.

@jondspen You have many good points, however, there is just one problem. Most of what you said is already taking place. Undocumented immigrants are not eligible for government assistance. All those DACA members who have jobs and are fine, upstanding members of society are not eligible for government assistance. They pay their taxes just like the rest of us, but are not eligible for government assistance. Even undocumented immigrants who are not apart of the DACA program and work a job pay their share in taxes. They are also still not eligible for government assistance. Undocumented immigrants pretty much do the jobs that no American wants to do unless they absolutely have to. They work in the fields, they take care of our lawns, they clean our hotel rooms, etc. They aren't taking anyone's jobs away but are filling positions that are vital that nobody wants. If you want to know who is taking hard working American jobs, you need not look any further than automation. Yes, the robot is taking our jobs away, not undocumented immigrants. Most of the undocumented immigrants that come to this country are seeking asylum from the dangers of their own country. If their own government cannot, or does not, actively seek to protect its citizens then they have every right to leave their country of origin to find ways to protect themselves. Since European countries are not a readily available option, they seek asylum with the United States. Most of these people are very hard working and would be a very important asset to their society but our bigotry gets in our way. It's interesting that undocumented immigrants from European countries, mainly Eastern European countries, don't have the problem that the people South of the boarder have.

Everything you mentioned is already taking place, aside from the undocumented immigration tax to fund a better system. Our system is fine, it may need tweeking here and there but otherwise it's just fine. It's the people that need to be improved. Especially the people in our current administration.

@Captain747ex Well in California and Texas where I lived in the past, it was happening, as well as most boarder states that I am aware.

And a formal program isn't in place today to allow them to work towards citizenship in a documented manner. Otherwise they wouldn't be 'illegal' anymore. Plus, businesses they do work for do not pay any extra money above legal citizens or immigrants. Most of the time they under-pay taxes into federal programs b/c they allow illegal practices (pay in cash, duplicate SSN, etc.)

So no, hardly anything I mentioned is "already taking place". And I am unsure why you infer I implied they were stealing jobs. I did not address the type of work they do, nor it's effect on the American labor force. IMO that is a moot point for addressing the reality of their presence in society. Most are unskilled, manual labor jobs, but that is just a job demographic, and not the crux of the issue.

@jondspen Usually the topic of undocumented immigrants brings up the subject of them stealing jobs. But you didn't mention that, so please disregard that portion of my post with my apologies. If undocumented immigrants are getting government assistance, that is a failure of they system for not doing their due diligence. I agree that there may not be any programs to allow them to work towards citizenship, that why I said many of the things you mentioned are already in place. And of course businesses don't pay a higher, or additional, tax for the benefit of the system. However, they do pay taxes, well some of them do while others don't pay anything at all, and those tax dollars could be reappropriated towards funding a new program or system. Again, if the business wants to pay cash under the table or commit fraud just to employee an undocumented immigrant, the blame should be placed on the business and not the undocumented immigrants. There are many businesses that pay their employees under the table, that doesn't make them any less of a citizen. I'm not saying the system is perfect, far from it. But, it takes two to tango and the system/government, whether it be local, state, or federal, is just as much to blame if they do not follow their own rules.


I don't see how a wall on a nearly 2000 mile border will protect America and keep out illegals, when we have the open coast lines of the Gulf, Pacific, and Atlantic to contend with.

You can include a link to this post in your posts and comments by including the text q:165358
Agnostic does not evaluate or guarantee the accuracy of any content. Read full disclaimer.