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I have an idea, which I postulated a long time ago, and aside from some thought and a little reading, I haven't put much time into researching the idea. As any scholar of Christianity knows (excepting evangelicals) the Trinity was voted on and accepted in the mid 300's. As a theory it did not exist, in writing, until the 200's. Once put into place many Christian groups, in the Mideast, especially, turned away and either stared their own small sects (often eradicated by Orthodox Catholics of all ilks) or returned to their, so called, Pagan ways. My thought has been: if the Christian religion had not embraced the Trinity, would Islam grown as quickly, or at all, to fill the void, as it, too, is an Abrahanic religion? Just wondering. Any thoughts?

Beowulfsfriend 9 Sep 7
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17 comments

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Religions grow because of the unrelenting quest for power of their leaders NOT because their theology makes more sense or is easier to understand. All religion is full of unbelievable supernatural crap and lists and lists of fucking rules to follow. They reason they grow is their leaders see the personal power available to them if they relentlessly lie and push their "brand" as hard as they can. If it were not for these power hungry leaders pushing their propaganda,NO ONE would follow this crap.

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To add to this, the single country with the most Catholics is India. Jesus disappeared for 18 years. The philosophy that he espoused on his return is remarkedly like Hindu. The Trinity, turning the other cheek. That coupled with the Horus legend made up the rest. Just my 2 cents.

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It is the nature of religion, because of the lack of independently-verifiable evidence for many of its assertions, to undergo schism. Both Christianity and Islam are products of schism, having split off from Judaism. All three of these have split repeatedly, Christi-insanity alone having produced some forty thousand sects. So if it had not been Islam, it would have been something else.

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It is/was my understanding that in Islam Jesus is another prophet, an important one, but no more than a prophet. Is that incorrect?

A prophet and son of God, but not as important as Mohammed. He didn't die on the cross, but like Enoch, Noah's father, he ascended into heaven. Mohammed was the last and greatest prophet according to Islam. Jesus, Son of God, not god incarnate like most Christians believe.

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As a historian I was taught that the less useful questions are the -what if- ones... What matters is what happened and why it happened.

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The Qur'an originally developed as Muhammad's attempt to make the Hebrew (and some Christian) sacred texts available in Arabic to the Arabians. After converting some Arabians to Islam, and being rejected by the Jews Christians and "pantheists", "the prophet" ceased being a missionary and became a warlord. Since then, Islam has been successfully spread by warfare (Jihad). I doubt that the dogma of the Trinity was a factor.

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I believe Islam was a forced conversion by Mohammed, basically was convert or die.

Partially true. But the Christians did the same thing. And Islam's 13th century people were allowed to convert, under threat, but Christian groups gave no such provision, killing all non Christian people.

Christianity did the convert or die thing. It is impossible to state if more died from Christianity or from Islam trying to spread their version of religion. They are both horribly violent and bloody. We think of how violent Islam is due to recent news events. But do not forget the crusades and all the deaths there, nor forget the Inquisition and all the deaths there, do not forget the "Christianizing " of the new world after Columbus and all the deaths there and DO NOT FORGET THE CHRISTIANS ARE THE ONLY GROUP TO HAVE DROPPED AN ATOMIC BOMB ON SOMEONE!!!!!

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Islam didn't start as a religion for about another thousand years. I am more inclinded to believe it was developed more as an antithesis to the Christian religion being shoved into the Eastern Roman empire from the Western Roman empire .... Kind of a "no we don't need your BS, we have our own".

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I reckon the Trinity probably helped Islam to appeal to a lot of people who rejected Christianity for being too theologically weird.

Which rings me to my next question, how widespread was knowledge of these kind of details of the faith? Possession of ancient bibles in Greek or Latin must have been limited to the clergy no? And relatively few people could read or write.

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Interesting idea. I don't know enough about history to comment further.

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who knows constantine seemed to be using it to solidify his power the islamic nations at the time were very forward thinking and scientific but as with all things religion doesnt like sharing power i think we can all agree without its influence our lives now would be way more amazing (im talking flying cars and hols on the moon amazing wheres my flying car religion???😛)

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I can't help bu think "yes, god is 3 - clap, 3 - clap, 3 mints in one." It's the worst doctrine you ever heard of and lots of fun hearing apologists all make fools of themselves explaining it.

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We can't know either way. For all we know the Trinity was what kept Christianity together and without it it would have crumbled. Maybe, maybe not. Some things are too complex and there's too little information make any definite claims.

Dietl Level 7 Sep 8, 2018
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Given that most Christians just know that their God is "three persons" without understanding this rather sophisticated concept, I do not think that the idea of Trinity did contribute a lot neither to the success of Christianity nor to the success of Islam.

Quite agree. Early Christianity was about having a life to look forward to after the trials of this life. Nothing intellectual involved. The poor people’s religion which made them feel special in a world of uncertainty and violence. Why would they care about a Trinity whatever that my be. Trinitarianism really just sent Arius packing and created an overly complicated doctrine that was not understandable let alone valid. It just made hollow bishops look clever!

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The rise and fall of religions has many variables. Any one thing can only have a limited effect.

Would Islam have died if the trinity was not a thing? Probably not.

Would it have been hindered? Probably so.

I like the thought process you are using.

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Possibly. Although according to the faith Mohammad was greeted by Jesus in his ascension into paradise, so without THE Trinity, do we have Islam?

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I've often thought the rise of Islam was due to the dark ages, when the pagans were being wiped out in Europe.

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