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In the balance between being responsible and being free, where do you find yourself? You could go all the way to one extreme and say you are free from all responsibilities bar what’s necessary for survival, or all the way to the other extreme and say you’re responsible to vote, to the members of your community, to society to be a good citizen.

Denker 7 Sep 30
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9 comments

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I am always free to choose as I see fit and so long as I am willing to accept the responsibility for the consequences of my choices.

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A responsible free person abides by the rules imposed upon him by society or takes he required action to change the rules.

What about the rules that society would like to impose, such as everybody being tolerant or even being Christian? In a way all agnostics are rebels.

@Denker Faalls under changing the rules u do not like.

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I'm going to go Jocko on you...

Discipline equals freedom.

True freedom requires responsibility, attention, and discipline. In order to have freedom to play music, I have to practice to build the capacity to do it well.

I don't see these things in conflict.

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I've spent too many years being responsible to loosen up all that much now halfway through my 7th decade. I've been trying. I still have people depending on me, which is fine, and I think I am resigned to this level of responsibility in my life. Nobody seems to be stepping up to take the responsibilities away, so there you go.

Do you feel other people unjustly pushed responsibilities onto you? Or that you’ve taken too much onto yourself?

@Denker no, I don't think there was anything unjust about it. When it comes down to it, there is no one else to handle what I am handling. I'm not resentful or angry or anything like that, and I have a lot of positive things going on. This is just the hand I was dealt, and I'm playing it out the only way I know how.

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Interesting points raised by Hobbes and then re-iterated by Locke

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This gets to the free will vs free choice distinction. True free will would be the ability to act without consequence or cost. Only a conventionally-defined deity would literally have that ability, and it can be convincingly argued that it's logically impossible even then.

What's true for me is I have limited freedom of choice within a certain range. That scope of choice is somewhat expanded if I'm willing to disregard some of the consequences, e.g., I don't care what people think of me or how much they push back, I'm willing perhaps to go to jail on principle over such a choice, etc. In practice though, the balance is that I'm free so long as I don't hurt other people -- morally speaking -- and I'm free so long as it's legal (or I don't get caught) -- practically speaking.

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I live how I feel at the moment. Always accept the consequences of my actions. If you try to live for your community, and others who more then likely won't do a damn thing for you, your gonna be miserable. Live for yourself, accept your mistakes when you make them and learn from them. Nothing wrong with making mistakes as long as you learn from them.

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Actions have consequences. Free means being responsible such that your actions will not result in a loss or restriction of that freedom. Infringing on someone else's freedom will generally come back to limit your own freedom. This may be the rationale behind the concept that a slave owner cannot be free.

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For myself, I think that balance seeks its own level just like water does. It’s not something we have to wrangle with philosophically so much. It all depends on how aware we become of reality. I am totally free to devote all my efforts to making myself comfortable and satisfied, but... as I become aware of the fact that the world also includes a lot of desperate, unfulfilled people who are likely to intrude upon my peace, then my interests naturally pivot toward reducing that disparity. For a social species there is really little useful distinction between self and other.

skado Level 9 Sep 30, 2018
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