Agnostic.com

16 2

Relationships between teachers and students.
I had a rather heated conversation with a friend who used to be a teacher. He is convinced that he missed out on some good relationship possibilities due to what he believes was an unfair restriction on dating between teachers and their students. I believe that the uneven power dynamic makes it wrong. You can always wait until the class is over. He replied that all relationships have differences in power. What do you think?

Stephanie99 8 Oct 10
Share

Enjoy being online again!

Welcome to the community of good people who base their values on evidence and appreciate civil discourse - the social network you will enjoy.

Create your free account

16 comments

Feel free to reply to any comment by clicking the "Reply" button.

3

His job is to teach the students, not use his classes as a showroom for potential dates. He's free to hit on the single women in the faculty but the students are off limits. He should already know this.

Also, all relationships do not have a difference in power. Some do but I think most of them are relatively equal. I think he's just using that as an excuse. Your friend has some questionable ideas.

0

I seem to have been blocked and a comment withdrawn because I asked if by staying with a spouse you might be condoning Inappropriate behaviour? Can you guess a, Who blocked me and b. Who the question was about?
It seems that debate is only limited to those that agree with you and if not people feel free to put words into your mouth.

Sorry, I didn't see the conversation and I'm interested to hear that blocking is going on. It doesn't sound like you did anything blockworthy.

@Stephanie99 What happened was I mentioned that Clintons behaviour was also inappropriate as per post. Then I asked (just asked) if Hillary is tainted by condoning said behavior by not leaving him. Which I also said looked more to be for convenience. I was called sexist and misogynist for just asking the question. Quote "You would never have asked that if it had been a man". Which is untrue and putting words into my mouth. I tried to counter with with some comments but she removed her comment and blocked me. It seems that having a narrow and closed mind is not gender specific.

@273kelvin I understand now. You were blocked by a specific person. How do you know? Does it come up on your profile? I don't think that is a concern unless it happens a lot. One person could have good reasons for not wanting to hear certain points of view: triggers and such.

In Hilliary's case, we don't know the whole story so I'm not going to judge, but I can see your point. There is understanding and forgiveness that are important in any relationship.

Does that meaning by remaining civil to this person, part of my social circle, I condone his point of view? I disagreed with it publicly and argued against it. I think that is adequate. I tend not to dump friends unless they hurt me directly. That could be convenience, self centered, or perhaps understanding.

@Stephanie99 The whole thread disappeared and when I tried to view her profile to see if it was there in comments all I could do was hover. This tells me that I was blocked.
I was civil but I do object to people assuming a stance that is not mine. I put forward what I thought was a reasonable argument. If someone disagrees with me then that is their right. They can put their case to me and I will consider it. I was labeled and libeled for merely asking the question and then she walks off in a fit taking her metaphorical ball with her.
As for Hillary I am sure the whole affair must have cost her some votes.

1

he is making excuses, re all relationships and power. it's true, but irrelevant, because the student-teacher relationship involves clearly DEFINED power, and it BEGS to be abused (not all power is). lovers give each other a kind of power; they can exit the relationship if the power play is unfair and they're not into that. a student depends on a teacher for a grade that may make the difference between graduating and not, a grade point average that can influence the next educational step or employment, and maybe more. this is not the same thing as one partner being naturally stronger in some areas than another. if you break up with your lover and he gives you a bad grade for that, or if you stay with your lover and he gives you a good grade because he loves/likes/owns you, how is that ethical? the restrictive rules are GOOD. now, i used to teach, at a variety of levels, and i became romantically involved with one of my adult students. first of all, it was a cultural center. i had absolutely NO power over him. no grades were given, no degree or certificate was being sought, and nothing whatsoever rode upon our getting along, much less being friends, much less being lovers. even SO, he stopped being my student as soon as we realized that we were about to go beyond friendship. there was nothing for either of us to lose by his staying in the class, but it just felt wrong anyway. so we did the right thing.

g

1

I should have mentioned that it was college level, although this "friend" (should I call him acquaintance?) now tutors some high school level students so that is worrisome. He was rather adamant. I'm glad to get so much support for my position.

1

Just No! Not as long as the student is under your supervision. And that is at the collegiate level. Never in HighSchool, no matter what class they are in.

1

Relationships between any teacher and any student is wrong. Will the teacher give the student a fair grade or an inflated grade. This regards college level. Any lower education levels are criminal.

0

Nope! I remembered in high school being extremely flattered if an older man expressed interest in me. However, a high school aged girl is to young to be with a man (or woman) old enough to be a teacher.

College is more of a gray area.

1

hes a dick and should not be a teacher if he can't understand why that makes him at best a potential sex offender the power imbalance is so weighted towards the person in power only a moron would try and justify it your friends a moron btw

I think you're thinking of high school and below...I think this is about college age people and older. Although the OP should have stated that.

1

I think your friend doesn't get it. If he doesn't understand how his position could pressure a student into acquiescence, he should never have been in a classroom.

JimG Level 8 Oct 10, 2018
0

He's right. I had a great relationship with a teacher. No harm, no foul.

1

I am a university lecturer and I would be dismissed if I began a relationship with a student. Some of my students are my age or even older, they know their own mind. However, as Stephanie states the power dyanamic makes this very murky. My colleague (and sort of boss) married his ex-student. These are adult relationships and consequently its no one else's business, however this is wildly open to abuse...oh and most students pong 😉

2

The law says that anyone in a position of trust cannot have any sexual contact with a person in their care, even when they are over the age of consent at 16.

The reason for this is that the adult is in a position of responsibility and they are there to look out for the best interests of the young person in their care. Someone in a position of trust is classed as a teacher or someone whose job it is to look after you. So, if you were in a hospital or residential care, the people looking after you would also be breaking the law if they had a sexual relationship with you.

This means that any sexual activity with someone under 18 is illegal, which includes any intimate touching, even kissing, as well as all sexual intercourse between both males and females.

It is important to remember that the person over the age of 18 is the one who is breaking the law. The person receiving the care, such as the student, are deemed to be innocent. No matter what part they have played in the relationship, even if they want the relationship, and have taken active steps to encourage it, no charges will be brought against them.

Even when both people are over 18, many jobs where someone provides care or a service for someone else, have rules in place which make it against their policy to engage in a sexual relationship.

If the worker ignores this rule, it can mean they can lose their job because the relationship is seen as inappropriate, and therefore goes against the company policies and procedures, which are there to protect the people who are being provided a service or being cared for.

For more information, read The Sexual Offenses Act 2003 and The Sexual Offenses (Amendment) Act 2000.

Like president and intern?

Remember, Mary J. Laterno?

@LiterateHiker Do you think that Hillary was tainted by this? She did not leave him but stayed for convenience, thereby condoning his actions?

@LiterateHiker I am not saying I do or that you do. What I asked is "Is she tainted" ie. do others judge her by association?
I cannot speak to whether it was love or not but the marriage did seem to be more of convenience than love. That`s what it came across as.
How can this be deemed as sexist when the 1st person I condemned was him? Not every negative comment about any woman is sexist. We have a right wing woman PM (not the 1st). If I call her incompertant and uncaring just as I might if she were a he. Am I then sexist?
When you stand for high office ALL aspects of your life will be subject to close scrutiny. That cannot have been the 1st time Bill strayed just the 1st time he got caught. And yes if the sexes were reversed I would say the same thing.

@LiterateHiker Which was? That you put words into my mouth. (just in case you don't know what patronizing is. Its when.....)
Look Pierre Trudeau was undermined and brought his country into disrepute in the 70`s by his wife's flanderings with the Stones etc. It was not his fault but he did not get rid and that was his fault. However none of HER peccadilloes were inappropriate other than she was 1st lady and should have known better or have been more discrete

@LiterateHiker My original comment was about Bill. I asked repeat ASKED a supplementary question about Hillary. Next you accuse me of sexism and deem to know what I would say or do if the sexes were reversed "You would never say that about a man who is loyal to his wife." How dare you!
Sexism goes both ways you know. I ask you this, would you have been so quick to jump down my throat if I were female?and don't say a woman would not ask that because you are not all women.

2

So if his boss showed interest in him sexually .. he would be ok with that?

4

Your friend is thinking only in terms of power without considering the type of relationship that already exists. I don't mind unequal power — e.g., one person with a better job, more social or political influence, etc. — but that's not what we're talking about here. This is an existing relationship in which the dynamic is unbalanced, which makes consent questionable at best. It opens the door to an imbalance that affects (in this case) academics, career, and so on. Even if he weren't the sort to use his position to coerce women to engage in sex with him, without these rules in place there would be many people who would use their position of authority (teachers, clergy, politicians, employers, police, judges, and on and on) to prey on people who are directly under their thumb and who don't have an easy means of escaping that dynamic. For someone in his position, today, after everything we've seen in the news, to not understand how that power dynamic casts a shadow on any ostensible consent is bordering on willful ignorance to say the least.

Well said !

0

The power dynamic is unbalanced in favor of the teacher during the class but once the class is over and as long as both are adults, I have no problem. Perhaps after the class, the teacher may still impart some sensual lessons.

4

I think that this type of thinking may be what has lead to his lack of relationship success more than the restriction.

Write Comment
You can include a link to this post in your posts and comments by including the text q:197882
Agnostic does not evaluate or guarantee the accuracy of any content. Read full disclaimer.