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A young parent once asked me about how to raise an agnostic child. “Easy,” I said. “Do nothing. It’ll happen on its own.”

It's religion that requires early indoctrination and constant, relentless maintenance: Worship, prayer, catechisms, Bible study, Hajj, mezuzot, whatevs. Demonization of the other helps too.

But not so for non-belief: Have you got convincing evidence? Great, I’m in. (And, no, bananas don’t count.) I’d rather like the idea of my spirit carrying on and meeting (some of) the dead again. All I ask is for a reasonable argument – one without magic.

So, I follow feeds of various atheists/agnostics, etc. Maybe I’m just getting atheist fatigue. I don’t need the endless inculcation and repetitions: We’re on the winning team already. Whatever the religion of choice, be it Free Market Capitalism, Climate Damage Denialism, or theism, it’s always the same ignorant, circular defenses and apologia over and over. If we evolved from chimps why are there still chimps? It's so easy to take the low hanging bait.

Ugh. Enough.

(Well, except Hitch maybe.)

(Why does the pic of Hitch keep disappearing? Is admin removing it? I've replaced it 3 times.)

Deiter 8 Nov 29
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7 comments

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The general rule of thumb, that seems to hold true, is that if a given trait appears in all cultures, in all places, and in all periods of history, then it is most likely either directly or indirectly driven by an evolutionary adaptation. Few behaviors meet this criterion more completely than that thing we now call religion.

Religion is not just a bad idea that some ignorant but very persuasive person invented and talked 80% of the world’s population into believing so firmly they would kill and die to defend. It’s as indelible a part of human nature as the instinct to seek mates or to protect our offspring.

Religion will not evaporate in the presence of silence. Like all of Homo sapiens’ animal instincts, it will require constant, ongoing, active training to redirect. Religion will never go away. The options available to us are to let it run wild or to domesticate it; take your pick.

skado Level 9 Nov 29, 2018
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You seem to be talking about mindless, dogmatic religion, and I agree that children should not be indoctrinated into that sort of program. They should not be indoctrinated into anything. Each person gradually awakens to truth in her own time. The ultimate achievement IMO is to awaken to spirituality and appreciation for Ultimate Reality. The most likely program of indoctrination in these times is that of rote scientism and the philosophy of materialism, pounded into people’s heads through constant media exposure and in schools.

The free market economy is not a religion any more than opposition to the free market is a religion. To question the climate change establishment is certainly not a religion—many professional climatologists are not fully on board. Any opinion can be rote and dogmatic but to label every opinion with which you disagree a “religion” detracts from your message.

I’ll have to disagree on the part about no indoctrination. I think kids need training. It’s interesting to read about feral humans who literally grew up with zero human indoctrination. Not a pretty sight.

@skado Good point. Children mainly learn spontaneously by watching their parents IMO, and of course there has to be some discipline also, especially at an early age.

What I think will backfire is a program or campaign to raise a child to fit certain narrow expectations such a a particular career or religious orientation.

@WilliamFleming
I agree with that. It's the expectations that are so damaging.

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My thought has always been that if you teach them to think, the rest works itself out. 😉

I agree, I taught my daughter to think for herself from a very young age, never to blindly accept what she was told as being true/factual unless she had first thought about it and decided for herself, BUT, most important of all I taught her to show respect and kindness towards ALL others, even to those who reject you for it, trust in yourself, speak your mind clearly and without animosity and be yourself no matter what.
Not wishing to sound boastful, etc, but over the years, both while she was alive and even since her passing, I have been told by innumerable strangers, teachers, friends, etc, who knew her well that " She was a child that any parent could be proud to have raised, a credit to my teachings and a credit to the human race."

2

I agree but I also took my child to various places of worship so that they wouldn’t be ignorant to what the beliefs are and how they are different.
I also encouraged reading each of the religions books so as to be able to understand what they’re talking about or if need to be to hold your own in a debate.
I also made it clear that if my child wanted to follow and practice a faith or religion that I wouldn’t oppose or shun them for doing so as long as they were versed and devout.

At this time my child is 25 and exploring Wicca and has friends who are of many faiths who love and appreciate that my child is knowledgeable and respectful of their beliefs and none have tried to convert.

So there’s many ways to go about raising a child in an agnostic or atheist home but I chose to not behave like most religious parents and tell my child you have to adopt and conform to my beliefs.

@Deiter I agree with your point about the abrahamic faiths but that’s the part that’s killing them now.
Our children because of the lack of direct and constant parenting are developing their own sense of identity and ideologies but since they’re still going to encounter those who believe in and follow older religions I feel it’s best to ensure that they’re at least aware of them and what they believe.

For me I was raised around a lot of southern Baptist and my father who was rebellious decided to first join the catholic faith and then later converted to Judaism.
So I had a taste of all three and I was deployed to the first gulf war and spent a lot of time in Saudi Arabia as well as dealing with Americanized Muslims while working in corrections.

So if we want to preach diversity and acceptance to our children so that they hopefully one day will stop the killing of each other then we first have to be open and knowledgeable.

2

I have to agree on the matter of Indoctrination of Children should be Banned as they are not Mentally Prepared to deal with the information they are receiving until maybe 21 years of age and then only if they are educated with the ability to discern the difference between truth verses belief. How that could happen eludes me as America is Nuts about its Beliefs....

@Deiter I agree and I read that article and was Disgusted.. I am thinking about how to move to the Yukon since I cannot get a ride to Mars. This Country is Insane with religious fervor and it Disgusts me daily.

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Well said.

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Religion would become obsolete much more quickly if the brainwashing of children into the belief system would stop.

Yes this you said it!

The only part of religion that comes from brainwashing is the local flavor. If all parents in the world agreed to be totally silent about their religion, and followed through flawlessly, the very next generation would come in more religious than ever, with their own original flavors, because the tendency to religious behavior is an evolutionary adaptation, plus the consequence of unavoidable neonatal development. For the science behind this read John Wathey. Energy is better spent steering that instinct in a healthy direction than pretending we can effortlessly step outside the effects of evolution’s imprint.

@skado no thanks

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