Armed Drones?
Have drones "civilized" war if one were to compare it to other wars or is it just another evolution in warfare?
3
Enjoy being online again!
Welcome to the community of good people who base their values on evidence and appreciate civil discourse - the social network you will enjoy.Create your free account
7 comments
Feel free to reply to any comment by clicking the "Reply" button.Another name for slaughter machines. Poor countries have no chance at all against this.
Jolanta
Level 9
Dec 18, 2018
1
Do you think poor countries depend on America to protect them? (Sadam Hussein)
@kgoodyear while from our perspective we did liberate the people of Iraq, I would imagine that this is a perspective that is more difficult to hold if you are Iraqi, well honestly i would imagine that it would be difficult for anybody to see a foreign invading army as liberators, no matter how oppressive your ruler was.
@Jolanta this technology must be absolutely terrifying to smaller poor and poorer nations, all our first world countries got to grow up in isolation and make mistakes, if your forming a modern nation today you must feel like your doing it while guns are pointed at you.
@TiernanMcCann Should we have done nothing?
@TiernanMcCann Yes unfortunately
I heard the thing about firing over heads that @TiernanMcCann mentioned too but I think that was a study done on one war in particular, and I can't remember which, but I believe either the civil war or WWI. The point of the piece on this was that in subsequent wars we got over it and found ways to condition soldiers to actually do the job regardless. I think this was also the origin of the term decimation. If you were too ethical and/or "cowardly" to go into battle or they found no one was actually firing they would put to death 1/10th of their own battalion to give the rest some motivation.
Although I agree with his overall point. Theres a little more possibility of a soldier on the ground making the choice to be civil and not kill women or children if they have the chance to personally make the decision in person. Still, there's plenty of evidence that things can go extra wrong when we have a personal touch on war too. The way we dehumanize the enemy's race and strain a soldier's mental health, and the guerilla tactics of sending kids as suicide bombers allows all kinds of atrocities to happen.
The thing about drone stikes is when they order one they are usually going on 1 piece of info: the metadata of the phone belonging to the target is reflecting this location. This allows for an illusion of a precision strike but really we might just be fucking up a place full of civilians where the dude left his burner. There's not a lot of nuance to our intelligence to go on there. Im not sure it's significantly better or worse for practical purposes. It's less risky for the aggressor, which can lead to some carelessness and denial of collateral damage since no one really has to see it up close. But even if our forces saw it all up close you'd be surprised what you can get past.
Wurlitzer
Level 8
Dec 18, 2018
1
very interesting. Thanks for the feedback
War has never been civilized, but I would say that combat between opponents with equal arm’s and armor where each is in equal danger to the other is as close as civilized as war could get. Drones on the other hand, especially used the way they are against people armed with basic ballistic weapons is as far from fair combat as you can get. Drones are less war and more slaughter
I read somewhere that soldiers on the battlefield when firing rifles across the battle lines tend to actually aim above the opposing soldiers as they do not actually want to kill, they just hope that the guy next to them is actually aiming, this is one of the reasons for all the military LSD experiments. However remote drone pilots do not suffer from the same “weakness” because they are not actually on the battlefield looking at the “enemy” they are more willing to kill.
Nothing civilized about slaughtering people half a world away from the comfort and safety of a military base
TiernanMcCann
Level 7
Dec 18, 2018
0
@thinktwice I was concerned about using the word "civilized" but it is the only word I could find that seemed to fit. I suppose "less violent" would be better--maybe. In WW2 there was carpet bombing, Viet Nam there was napalm. Desert Storm there was technology. If there is going to be a war has this evolution made it more "humane"?
@kgoodyear Nothing about die’ing in a fiery explosion is “Humane” does not really matter weather the source of the explosion is a rocket launcher on some soldiers shoulder, or a remote drone. At least with the rocket launcher the person doing the killing is also in danger. Not that this makes it civilized or humane, it just seems so cowardly to me to murder people without putting yourself in any danger at all, not that murder is ok if your in danger, but maybe less evil if you are actually in a him or me situation. And I appreciate that some of the people our soldiers are fighting in far away lands, would if they could, kill all of us. However they are so technologically behind us, never mind the US military spending which last I checked is something like 20 time all other nations on the planet combined, means that we are in basically no danger whatsoever here at home.
@thinktwice Dare I ask? Is this a war we should not be in. (I do not have a side; i am just trying to get opinions)
@TiernanMcCann Please bare with me when I use words in quotes. I am using quotes because while it is not the best word but best relays what I am trying to say.
I think they have taken the human out of warfare and made it too much like a video game where death and destruction are viewed on a screen...if you have to see the faces of people as you are killing them, I am sure that the impact would be different.
Sure, they saved lives...the lives of those not having to go into the battlefields...but obviously, they killed those intended and not intended on the ground. Weapons of the "have's" and destruction of the "have not's"....with money playing war...
thinktwice
Level 8
Dec 18, 2018
0
Do you think there was/is less collateral damage (death) then a conventional "boots on the ground" or death from above.
@kgoodyear I have no data on this but NO. I do remember reading that President Obama was responsible for more civilian casualties than any president before him due to the number of “innocents” killed in drone strikes. While I do not remember the source of this, drones being a new technology this is the kind of thing that I find very easy to believe. I do remember 2 Canadian journalists being killed in a drone strike in Afghanistan, where had it been soldiers on the ground those 2 people would be alive. All the drone pilots saw were the heat signatures and they fired, murdering non combatants who were in fact on the same side as the drone pilot. But from half way around the world the pilot had no chance of figuring that out
I can see it seeming more humane, but only if you do not see the enemy as human
Ask someone who has had a family member murdered in a drone strike if they think its more humane
@TiernanMcCann Civilian Drone deaths are 200% higher under tRump...so I agree...civilian deaths are higher and for the reason you stated...I understand that they do all they can to locate actual "targets" but in the end, it is just humans and some are innocent.
Civilized warfare.... no such thing.
bigpawbullets
Level 9
Dec 18, 2018
1
I realize that but just set that aside for now. Notice a comment above where I address the "civility" of drones.
@kgoodyear
Keith! I took the liberty of reading your profile. I think you'd be a good friend and great neighbor.
If I may ask, did you ever serve in a line unit in the military?
@bigpawbullets No. They had the lottery when I was eligible. My number, I believe was 265. To my recollection I don't think I lost any classmates to the war.
@kgoodyear
Ok. No big deal, I was just curious about your possible experience in a war zone. War, in my experience is an ugly and wasteful endeavor. Instead of attempting to sanitize it, we should make it as horrific as possible. Then we might think twice before sending our children to fight in one. Just my opinion.
@bigpawbullets Do you feel diplomacy has played a part? Is this a war on terrorism?
@kgoodyear
Of course. Warfare is simply the last resort when diplomacy fails.
Evolution of Warfare. You Observe from an Office.
GipsyOfNewSpain
Level 9
Dec 18, 2018
2
It has not civilized war. The innocent victims when the wrong target has been destroyed would not call that civilized. The family of a wedding party killed in the house next to the house of the intended target would not think that a drone is civilized.
noworry28
Level 8
Dec 18, 2018
0
Enjoy being online again!
Welcome to the community of good people who base their values on evidence and appreciate civil discourse - the social network you will enjoy.Create your free account
Share this post
Categories
Agnostic does not evaluate or guarantee the accuracy of any content. Read full disclaimer.