What would be your take on democratic socialism, Medicare for all?

@fatboy3488 I’d say yes (to both), bring it on, it’s about time, it’s working for the other industrialized nations.. But how I feel rarely seems to count, though I work within our established parameters for the betterment of all.

And that ‘all’ also includes our excessively wealthy industrialists … because without a stable, healthy society to sustain them, they’d never have obtained such wealth.

@Varn Without the wealthy, I can't tell where we would be right now. They pay most of our taxes. They'll take the hardest hit when medicare for all kicks in.

@fatboy3488 Folks can still be wealthy, like in Europe, just not greed run amok. I’m not bothering with the statistics here, but they pay a lot less in taxes now than when I was born. Meaning, they’re able to dump far more ‘expendable income’ into political propaganda ‘think tanks’ and dark money donations to purchase politicians ..most often, Republicans.

Seems another fear of young ..Libertarians, the I want mine too’ concept. As in, ‘Hey, lets not tax the wealthy’ (like they should be), ‘some day that could be me!’ Again, we must act for the balanced good the greater society, not just ‘me.’

@Varn Whoa... I didn't say don't tax the wealthy. They should pay their fair share, the question is what is fair and can they sustain a massive increase. Even European countries like Sweden saw a fall in their economy when they hit the wealthy hard. Higher taxes don't always mean a good thing and it doesn't keep people around. Businesses leave, people leave and these are more homogeneous regions, not like the US. I don't expect to be a wealthy person some day, but fair taxation should be expected for the greater good as long as it is actually the greater good. I don't think this county has a good handle on what that is right now.

Being a conservative, I have a strong belief in what our founding fathers wanted for this country. Beliefs we have wondered away from. The framework was always to have a government controlled by the people. If society allows, we will lose the need for a government and live as a free people. Not happening anytime soon. Government will work for now as long as it stays in its lane.

@OwlInASack what do you mean when you say militarization of the police?

@fatboy3488 not happening ever. we'd have to become individual sovereign nations instead of states and that would be a lot harder to administer (and lend itself to petty wars). we don't need smaller government. we need smarter government, with smarter citizens. our current government has worked hard to make sure we are undereducated so we will fall more easily for lies. meanwhile, our founding fathers never imagined a country with the size or population of ours. the size of the government had to grow too. we still need the post office, which is IN the constitution. the so-called conservatives currently in charge are trying to privatize that (fedex has a HUGE lobby). you know what needs to be smaller? no, not congressional salaries. i see THAT meme all the time. we need smaller corporate influence. if the people want to run the country (through their elected officials) they need to be the major influence ON the elected officials, and that means no corporate lobbying, no gerrymandering, no voter suppression, no cheating, no twisting the rules to favor the ruling party. not smaller government. fairer government. more honest government. and there are no conservatives in power right now (not that i'd vote for them, but i'd at least respect them). there are regressives.

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@fatboy3488 have you seen what the cops are using against civilians? military equipment, military weapons. that just should not be. and cops are not elected officials and should not have the power they do. yes, they should have the power to do their jobs and that is more power, in some ways, than civilians should have, but not the power to murder and get away with it, not the power to pull people off their own porches even after seeing proof that they ARE their own porches, and for no other reason than that those people have brown skin (google "henry louis gates" ).

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@OwlInASack I agree there is a problem with some police officers using excessive force, but it would happen no matter what tools they are given. Like any career, some people just shouldn't be anywhere near those positions. As far as military equipment, I would not want to see law enforcement out gunned. Criminals don't have regulations and they are getting more ruthless and violent.

@genessa I guess there is an argument for both sides. Look at the Hollywood bank robbery. You have police officers running to gun stores just get something that works. Preparation is everything. Have you seen what criminals are using against civilians. The same weapons and equipment. When police are ducking and hiding, you better have a safe room in your house.

As far as murder is concerned (I.E. Michael Brown) we have to remember perception means a lot in our society. If you have presupposition of law enforcement, people might not understand what's going on. Not jumping to conclusions, is a start. As far as Henry Louis, if he didn't have his presupposition of white police like he did, would he have reacted differently, absolutely. He was angry at the police for being there. He didn't stop to think about why they were there. Someone called 911, police came to investigate, and Gates started off on them. It wasn't their fault for being there. They didn't just happen to fall on his door step. I looked at both sides of the incident. Both sides could have handled the situation differently. It was Gates' presupposition that lead to an actual confrontation rather than just leaving the situation as a mistaken caller.

@genessa When we address size of government, we should be addressing scope of government. Should they tell you how to live? Should they tell you who you should marry? Should they take money away from you by force, to give to someone else? Should they tell you what you can do with your body? Smaller government means smaller defined scope of power. Since it is so big, corporate lobbyists have power since government has so much control over us. If you control the government power, you control the power to lobby.

I agree we are under educated. Government controls education, go figure. Privatize education? Why not leave it to the states? We don't need a federal education plan and give people more choice. Just watching how government is handled just within the last few decades, we shouldn't make it bigger. It can't handle what it has now, just look at the VA.

@fatboy3488 the police do not need tanks, PERIOD. gates's supposition (nothing PRE about it) was correct. don't blame the victim. gates is not prejudiced against white people by any means. government should not tell us how to live unless we're hurting others, and should not tell us whom to marry unless the person we're marrying is not legally competent to consent (child marriage is a problem in the south). you are characterizing taxes as if they're robbing us; taxes are necessary for the government to do its legitimate job. redistribution doesn't seem to bother people when it goes upward! we SHOULD take care of our vulnerable citizens. that's not robbery.

we are not undereducated because government controls education. it's because government doesn't protect or fund education. leave it to the states? so that's not government? yeah, states' rights is usually a dogwhistle for racist crap. choice my ass. free public education is choice. paid christian education is not choice. that's crap, really really crap. as for how government is handled, yeah, look who's handling it! DUH!

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@genessa Name a police department that put a tank shell through a house to catch a murderer. If criminals carry armor piercing bullets and police stronger armor to keep from dying, than make it happen. I'm not for protecting criminals from law enforcement. Police shouldn't be dressed in furry outfits while in gun fights with drug dealers and human traffickers. The military look might be ugly, but that look has kept this country in one piece all these years. Plus If a police officer came to my home to make sure I owned the house because someone thought I was breaking into it, I would not get mad at them for being there since I have been a victim of burglary before. I hope people speak up when they see something suspicious. If it turns out to be nothing then GREAT!

And I am referring to Gay marriage when I speak about the government choosing whom we can marry. I'm not disputing established statutory rape laws. I do not have a problem with all taxes, just taxes that enable people from having to take responsibility for themselves. I am skeptical of redistribution of funds up or down. If you take money from people by force, that is the definition of stealing. If the taxes are going to systems and programs that benefit ALL of society as a whole, I have no problem with that. We should take care of our vulnerable citizens, unfortunately many of them are not really vulnerable. I never meant for government to get out of education, just get it out of the federal level. Free public education is a choice, but redistricting is not. We can't even utilize a voucher system to give parents the ability to put their kids in the school of their choice. If they find a better school for their children they should be able to take them there. Hate Trump if you will, wasn't my best pick either, but this administration is not measuring success by how many more people they can put on public assistance, but for how many people they can get off of it.

@fatboy3488 most of what you've just said is so bizarre i don't think it is worth my time to respond (like the part about police putting a shell through a home). taxes are not taking money by force, so it's not stealing. what they use the taxes for does not change that. you can choose what the taxes are for by voting and letting your voice be heard. it's not theft just because you don't like some of the destinations. this administration is not measuring success by how many people they can get off public assistance and into self-sustenance. they're measuring it in that regard by how many people who really need public assistance they can abandon to poverty, illness and death. you are deluded about what this administration wants: it wants america destroyed. president putin... er, trump... is deliberately destroying our nation. oh and if the only choices for a good education are private religious schools that don't let brown people into them, wow, that's some choice. i stop here. it's just too much effort when i KNOW you're not as open to having your mind changed as you say you are, as it is already filled with fallacies. no offense intended. i am calling it as i see it.

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@OwlInASack absolutely true. i will add one thing: the kkk has infiltrated MANY police departments, and not just in the south. they have to be weeded out.

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@OwlInASack Teachers sleep with their students, so they need to be better educated? Doctors cut off the wrong limb, doctors are horrible people? Pointing out the worst members of a work force does not represent them as a whole by far. Police who commit murder are prosecuted and sent to prison. But if you look at every police shooting and blame the cop right off the bat, you already have a problem.
America was born because of the gun, the UK was not. So we our founders made it a right to keep them, and we keep them, the police have to keep them.
As far as black people are concerned, liberal laws were made to crack down on drugs tearing up the black communities. You are right, the democrats shouldn’t have passed laws like that. There was a crack epidemic and they didn’t know what else to do. That’s why I didn’t vote Democrat. However, statistically the black communities by far are the most violent leading the nation in murder and robbery after only being a fraction of the population. Why is this? Fatherless homes birthed by a welfare state brought by the 60’s encouraging moms to keep men out of the home to keep their benefits. Another liberal idea destroying the community.

@fatboy3488 police who commit murder are almost NEVER prosecuted and sent to prison! what world do you live in?

nobody votes democrat. the word is democratic.

the black communities are statistically NOT as you say. you are misinformed (that is giving you the benefit of the doubt and not assuming you are deliberately spreading lies). welfare state bla bla bla oh brother you have it bad. you have all the false talking points down pat. open mind my ass.

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@genessa You vote for a democrat, you don’t vote for a democratic. I don’t make up the numbers of crime statistics, I just report them. Anyone can see them. Just look up the FBI and national institute of justice statistics under crimes by racial demographic. See for yourself.
As far as the welfare state, Milton Friedman and Thomas Sowell can provide insight as to how the welfare state effected families. You don’t have to take my word for it.

@fatboy3488 correct. i vote for for A democrat. i vote democratic. (it's the democratic party, not the democrat party.) you didn't say for A democrat. you don't even know what you said. and yes, you did make up the crime stats. you are right again: i do not take your word for anything. you have your facts WRONG. you have your stats wrong. you have it ALL wrong.

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@genessa Did you even look at the statistics? I did sight my sources.

@fatboy3488 no, you did not sight them. you cited them, in a general, non-linked way. and yes, i looked at the fbi's pages on crime. they break them down by a lot of factors. race is not one of them. i don't think YOU looked at them. the nij,claims explicitly that it does not collect such statistics. i think you read someone who said that those sources said something they never said. i have ZERO interest in friedman or sowell, and given your recommendations to check out stats that seem not to exist, i don't feel obligated (not that i would've been) to go snooping around for which parts of what they may have said support your already-debunked ideas.

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@genessa Well here is the site. Obviously you are too lazy to find the truth and do your research so I did it for you. Instead of finding facts and investigating claims, you just write them off as non-existent or lies. Do your homework. I didn't wait for someone else to throw me a link.

[ucr.fbi.gov]

In case you don't know what to do, just copy and paste in the URL.

@fatboy3488 it's not MY homework. you're the one who made the claim -- and don't go calling people lazy when you have no clue. i looked pretty hard. i didn't find anything relevant and what you linked to isn't relevant either, since it is not a list of stats showing that black people commit the most violent crimes. it is a list of stats showing that the police arrest a higher percentage of black people among the black population than they arrest white people within the white population, despite arresting more white people for violent crimes than any other race. do you NOT know the difference, or its implications? it shows the bigotry within law enforcement. there is nothing in there about how many arrests led to convictions. so these were not the stats i was looking for. i was looking for stats about who actually commits crimes, not who got arrested. it would be nice if those were the same stats. they're NOT. black people get arrested for breathing just as easily as for violent crimes.

i don't know why i should have bothered, though, since i am not the one making the claim, as i say. you don't have to be condescending. you're not in a position to be. and since i have no reason to deal with nasty, condescending, closed-minded people who lie and say they're open-minded, and who spread misinformation, i have no reason to deal with YOU anymore. what a dope. you call ME lazy and then you're too lazy to figure out what you're looking at, and too immature not to characterize. no wonder you call yourself fatboy and not fatman. grow up.

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@genessa The Fatboy is the Harley I ride, but that's beside the point. To a person that's not lazy, the proper response would be, "Here's my evidence," since you were the one making the claim that police are racist. You don't have any. You just like to shoot down any possible evidence that contends with your claim. That is Bigotry. I do have an open mind, just give me something other than angry responses to facts and evidence. These rants haven't taught me anything, convinced me of anything, or shown me any reason to believe police are inherently racist. They are the worst racists since they manage to kill more white people in confrontations than blacks. I guess you won't believe that either. Bigots are hard to convince. There isn't evidence, or it's false evidence or it's not the right evidence. Just remember, you don't have to get mad at me, I just explain what I have found looking up the information, I didn't create the information.

@fatboy3488 you didn't create the information, nor do you understand it. calling me a bigot is a laugh. but then most of what you've said would be a laugh except for the fact that so many people believe it, and that's sad. goodbye.

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